Saving Weight on a Spa Steel Tourer

[NetworkMan]

I also have a Spa Tourer in steel, and when I investigated how much I could save by going lighter (but IMO maintaining function) the most I could save was 600g with a cost of £600, so I didn't bother. In this hot weather I've been taking along an additional bottle weighing 600g anyway , but it's better than dehydrating, which would slow me even more!

That figures I guess. I'm sure your wheels started you off in a better place than mine did. Do you mean spending £600 extra initially before buying the Spa or spending an extra £600 on the Spa.

By the way my approx. 12 kg. compares very well with Thorn's "Club Tour Mk4 Fast Touring Drop Bar spec." at £2189 12.0 -12.2 kg complete with carbon fibre bottle cages and 853 fork. I've spent half that including upgrades!

[Bmblbzzz]

When touring I find that at some point I'm carrying a litre of milk, 500 g of pasta and various other food stuffs that all combine to well over a couple kgs, which take you back to square one.

How are you back to square one? Wouldn't you have still bought the milk and pasta and therefore still have the same weight saving?
Plus not all of us buy kg's of shopping when we tour, or if we do it tends to be at the end of the day and we're not carrying it all the time.

Your back to square one as you have removed weight and then added it. I also try and buy food at the end of the day. But there are times, especially Sundays in other countries where the option to arrive at your destination in the afternoon or evening and find an open shop isn't there.

No, you are back to square two! If you carry 1.5kg of luggage on a 13.5kg bike, total weight is 15kg. The same luggage on a 12kg bike, total weight 13.5kg. By taking 1.5kg off the bike, you have a permanent saving. The extra 1.5kg will need a little extra energy to get up a hill, or more to the point (because this is when you'll notice it most) to lift into a train, over a gate, etc. What this does not mean is that a 12kg bike with 1.5kg of luggage will be the same to ride as a 13.5kg bike with no luggage.

[NetworkMan]

I think you'll definitely notice a saving of 1.5kg, at least when unladen, in the way the bike handles. What it might not do is make you any faster. If funds and space allow, I'd be inclined to do as Whoof says; keep the Spa for touring and get yourself a proper fast bike for unladen riding (not necessarily a mamiloid fast bike, just something more inclined to riding with speed and effort). But it is going to cost more than replacing parts!

I'm pretty sure I can feel the difference when accelerating back up to speed after having been slowed at junctions etc. That is probably due to the wheels since you have to put the energy back into getting them rotating again and getting the whole bike moving. Climbing I just don't know; the percentage gain is small and it is all so dependant on how one's feeling on the day etc etc.

In any event it really is a lovely bike to ride now. So smoooooth!

[NetworkMan]

How are you back to square one? Wouldn't you have still bought the milk and pasta and therefore still have the same weight saving?
Plus not all of us buy kg's of shopping when we tour, or if we do it tends to be at the end of the day and we're not carrying it all the time.

Your back to square one as you have removed weight and then added it. I also try and buy food at the end of the day. But there are times, especially Sundays in other countries where the option to arrive at your destination in the afternoon or evening and find an open shop isn't there.

No, you are back to square two! If you carry 1.5kg of luggage on a 13.5kg bike, total weight is 15kg. The same luggage on a 12kg bike, total weight 13.5kg. By taking 1.5kg off the bike, you have a permanent saving. The extra 1.5kg will need a little extra energy to get up a hill, or more to the point (because this is when you'll notice it most) to lift into a train, over a gate, etc. What this does not mean is that a 12kg bike with 1.5kg of luggage will be the same to ride as a 13.5kg bike with no luggage.

I can really feel the difference when lifting the bike. 12 kg vs 13.5 kg. (11%). As against 72 kg. vs 73.5 kg. (2%) when riding.

[horizon]

What are these starting points if one wants to use wide 35-37 mm tyres? The frame is really not that heavy; the difference between it and a steel frame Audax bike is, I suspect, largely the lack of a carbon fibre fork and the relatively heavy tyres and tubes.

Absolutely. It's been well discussed on here - the idea that you take a normal tourer and swap the wheels for audaxing or even racing IIRC. The weight difference between an Audax frame and a touring frame is small. It's everything else (e.g. frame dimensions, tyres etc) that completes the picture.

[Bmblbzzz]

Your back to square one as you have removed weight and then added it. I also try and buy food at the end of the day. But there are times, especially Sundays in other countries where the option to arrive at your destination in the afternoon or evening and find an open shop isn't there.

No, you are back to square two! If you carry 1.5kg of luggage on a 13.5kg bike, total weight is 15kg. The same luggage on a 12kg bike, total weight 13.5kg. By taking 1.5kg off the bike, you have a permanent saving. The extra 1.5kg will need a little extra energy to get up a hill, or more to the point (because this is when you'll notice it most) to lift into a train, over a gate, etc. What this does not mean is that a 12kg bike with 1.5kg of luggage will be the same to ride as a 13.5kg bike with no luggage.

I can really feel the difference when lifting the bike. 12 kg vs 13.5 kg. (11%). As against 72 kg. vs 73.5 kg. (2%) when riding.

Good!

[NetworkMan]

Interesting stuff. Having sold my audax bike, I'm also on a similar mission to lighten my touring bikes. I have a good idea of their usage and the aim is to get them as light as possible without compromising that. Have you looked at seatposts and stems? It surprised me how different they can be. Also worth a look at what's carried, I've been through my everyday toolkit and taken 250g out of it. If you're carrying two tubes, double your saving on lightweights. Luggage is next, my traditional saddlebag and support is heavy for what it is, though I like the look. I'm also looking a QR for some kit, dynamo light, rack, guards, I have this stuff fitted even on rides when I know it won't be used, though I'm not sure I could be bothered to remove it even if it was easy.
Do your costings include the value of the surplus kit? My biggest single saving was a SS to Ti rack, selling the original gave a reasonable gm/£

Does it make any difference? I'm not convinced that it does much more than remove an excuse! I do notice when I carry it up the stairs, which is just about everyday. I'm also planning to lighten my camping kit by 3kg, so combined with bike and luggage that'll be a total of around 5kg, on a hilly tour I think that will be significant. Though not as significant as the rider shedding 10kg!

Thanks for the helpful comments. I have also spent a little money on my Dawes Audax to make it fit really well and have fitted good tyres to try and decide which of the two I prefer to ride. So far the 25 mm tyres run at 6 bar (could I go lower I wonder?) are uncomfortable on rough roads in comparison.
I looked into seatpost and stem. Both are from Planet-X. The stem is probably about 120g. (mine is 9 cm and they quote 140g. for 11 cm). they claim that the seatpost is claimed to be 254g. I suppose I could saw off the bottom since it is far too long but that just sounds too OTT.
I completely agree about the excuse; as I struggle up the hill I can think, "Oh well I've done the best I can on the weight front - just get on with it!"
One reason for staying with a leather saddle is the bag loops since I like the saddlebag and another saddle would probably need a bagman or similar. By the way a Nelson Longflap and and an Ortlieb barbag with bracket both weigh about 750 g.
I went with the Tubus Fly rather than the Ti Airy at an extra 100g. because the 'horns' on the Airy would have dug into the saddlebag. The Fly has a flat top.

[Nigel]

............
One reason for staying with a leather saddle is the bag loops since I like the saddlebag and another saddle would probably need a bagman or similar. By the way a Nelson Longflap and and an Ortlieb barbag with bracket both weigh about 750 g.

Carradice and Ortlieb luggage are fairly heavy per item.

Alpkit might offer some lighter luggage options. Possibly at expense of durability.


- Nigel

[foxyrider]

When touring I find that at some point I'm carrying a litre of milk, 500 g of pasta and various other food stuffs that all combine to well over a couple kgs, which take you back to square one.

How are you back to square one? Wouldn't you have still bought the milk and pasta and therefore still have the same weight saving?
Plus not all of us buy kg's of shopping when we tour, or if we do it tends to be at the end of the day and we're not carrying it all the time.

Exactly, stuff like food and drink will be added to whatever the bike is so overall a weight saving on the bike of 1.5kg is still worth the same, ie you are still 1.5kg lighter than the heavier set up.

My two tourers weigh 9 and 10.5kg sans luggage - loaded the lighter one is still lighter.

Obviously the OP has looked at some of the big items for weight saving and it has already been mentioned that seatpost, handlebar and stem changes can make big differences. Reckon I saved 500 grams over stock items without having to spend out a fortune.

I've got a Ti rack which saves a lot over steel but at a price.

I have got down to 'marginal gains' - replacing steel bolts for Ti and Al (where appropriate), aftermarket gear rollers and Carbon cage, carbon bottle cages and headset spacers, (I wheel security, higher spec pedals. Mostly small gains but added together they can add up. A change of seatpost saved 100g, the same with a brake upgrade and fitting Ti skewers saved over 80g over the Pitlocks.

The over riding thing is that there is no compromise in performance.

When you get to the kit you take, how far you go is up to how comfortable you are or want to be, how independent, where you'll be going and even when.

I reckon my full camping gear and luggage set up cost about £1000 and weighs in at @ 7kg (3kg of that is bags!). That's panniers, bar bag, cooking gear, tent, sleeping bag, mat etc. By the time i've added clothing, toiletries, fuel and food there is usually another 6-7kg.

Just don't get too carried away, I bought a stupidly light (31g) carbon pump - it didn't do the job when I needed it, I now carry a heavier but very reliable hosed al pump (92g). I have a custom built multi tool (I was sad enough to buy several and weigh all the components before assembling the final thing) that weighs 93g, it could be a bit less by replacing the side plates with carbon. All the ak's etc and a chain breaker, I also take a Leatherman Squirt for pliers, blade, bottle opener etc - just 55g.

Hope i've given the OP some ideas there.

[nigelnightmare]

Don't forget that with the lightweight more expensive/desirable upgrades you're going to need a security upgrade which weighs MORE.
Either that or take a chance that some scumbag will nick it when they see all that nice "bling"!

[foxyrider]

Don't forget that with the lightweight more expensive/desirable upgrades you're going to need a security upgrade which weighs MORE.
Either that or take a chance that some scumbag will nick it when they see all that nice "bling"!

Not exactly shiny bling! Could you tell the difference between Ti and steel at a glance?

And desirable? Surely only to someone who knows the kit, not the scumbag who wants to nick the bike who just want a quick exchange of goods for cash.

Add a big expensive looking lock and they will definitely be more interested. Let's face it, you are leaving maybe a couple of grand at the side of the road anyway, a couple of 'bling' bolts won't make any difference.

[fastpedaller]

I also have a Spa Tourer in steel, and when I investigated how much I could save by going lighter (but IMO maintaining function) the most I could save was 600g with a cost of £600, so I didn't bother. In this hot weather I've been taking along an additional bottle weighing 600g anyway , but it's better than dehydrating, which would slow me even more!

That figures I guess. I'm sure your wheels started you off in a better place than mine did. Do you mean spending £600 extra initially before buying the Spa or spending an extra £600 on the Spa.

By the way my approx. 12 kg. compares very well with Thorn's "Club Tour Mk4 Fast Touring Drop Bar spec." at £2189 12.0 -12.2 kg complete with carbon fibre bottle cages and 853 fork. I've spent half that including upgrades!

I assembled it myself. It would have been (from the investigations) £600 extra cost to buy alternative parts to save 600g

[landsurfer]

I have a SPA Steel Touring. It weighs nothing, not a gram, totally weightless.
Since I purchased it 12 months ago I have lost 16 kg of body mass, so my bike is now weightless.
As continue to lose weight I will have to tie my bike down as well as locking it to prevent it floating off ...

[gregoryoftours]

What about fit 23mm tyres?! No one wants them any more so they're dirt cheap, £ to weight saving ratio will be crazy!

[RickH]

What about fit 23mm tyres?! No one wants them any more so they're dirt cheap, £ to weight saving ratio will be crazy!

You may also shake out all your fillings & reduce the overall weight that way too!