Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

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reohn2
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Postby reohn2 » 3 Oct 2018, 9:20am

horizon wrote:
NetworkMan wrote:Seeing the fork makes me wonder. Is the ride harsher than on the rim braked tourer because of the stiffer fork? Does the ovalised down tube offset this for it not to matter? Is all this hidden by the squidgy tyres that most people will fit anyway?


You are risking a huge thread diversion (despite the thread title!) because this is at the heart of the matter. There is a huge thread somewhere on this very topic (I just hope Brucey doesn't read your post :D :shock: ).

One must assume that Colin has made the right choices and compromises: if you want discs (which I personally don't object to) then you take the rough with the smooth, so to speak.

And there's a lot more rough than smooth these days with current state of UK minor roads,'squidgy tyres' also opens up a whole new world of tracks and trails that are very uncomfortable on narrower tyred bikes with small mudgaurd clearances.
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Whippet
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Postby Whippet » 3 Oct 2018, 8:57pm

531colin wrote:Now, I don't have records of what cycle parts were fitted in 2012, and I rather doubt that anybody else does either.
However, this photo is dated 2012 (by the camera, not me!)...https://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/7262928344/in/album-72157624571269648/. The brakes are branded "Genetic", and I think there may have been others too, before we settled on Tektro RX 6 mini-vees., like this...https://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/15234665408/in/album-72157624571269648/
The Tektro RX 6 are a very good brake; because the arms are rigid you don't get any "lost motion" by the brake arms flexing, every millimetre the cable moves has an effect on the braking. With bendy brakes, you can apply the brakes then pull the lever all the way back to the bars just flexing the brake arms. So with RX6 you can have decent pad clearance and good braking, much better than long dual pivots.


Thanks for the reply Colin. It came with Tektro, but I’m not sure which ones. Either way, they only gave minimal rim clearance.

Whippet
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Postby Whippet » 7 Oct 2018, 6:50pm

One more update about the brakes on my Spa Tourer: I’ve often wondered if the Shimano LX rims it came with could provide more friction. I cleaned them with brake cleaner + fitted the best brake blocks but the braking was still vague and unimpressive. Today I fitted a set of new Hunt Four Season alloy wheels and the braking has been transformed ( even with my compromise long reach dual pivot brakes ). The bike now seems to be as I hoped it would be.

jerg
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Postby jerg » 14 Oct 2018, 11:32am

How does the Wayfarer compare to a Surly Disc Trucker regarding heavy duty touring, and what is it like to ride unloaded?

I've currently got a Salsa Vaya which I found was fine for light touring, but got a bit wobbly when I loaded the front up. I've got the urge to build something new up over winter using bits off my Kaffenback and the Wayfarer has caught my eye.

Brucey
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Postby Brucey » 15 Oct 2018, 12:32am

jerg wrote: ....I've currently got a Salsa Vaya which I found was fine for light touring, but got a bit wobbly when I loaded the front up....


any further details of the load carried and how it was supported? Carrying any load on a fairly light bike can be a bit hit and miss, there may be something to be learned from your wobbles.

cheers
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reohn2
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Postby reohn2 » 15 Oct 2018, 10:16am

jerg wrote:How does the Wayfarer compare to a Surly Disc Trucker regarding heavy duty touring, and what is it like to ride unloaded?

I've currently got a Salsa Vaya which I found was fine for light touring, but got a bit wobbly when I loaded the front up. I've got the urge to build something new up over winter using bits off my Kaffenback and the Wayfarer has caught my eye.

What kind of racks and what weight were you carrying and where on the bike?
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jerg
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Postby jerg » 15 Oct 2018, 9:10pm

Sorry if I'm derailling this thread !

To answer the questions i had a front Tubus Tara lowrider fitted with a pair of 15 litres panniers filled with gas stove, cooking pot, dry food and spare clothes (iirc). I also had a Carradice bar bag with camera, glasses, rechargeable battery and other 'useful' stuff.

On the back I had a rack with a pair of 20 litre panniers which had bulky items in sleeping bag, camping mat, wash stuff . I can't remember what else was in there. I had a nearly 3kgs tent strapped to the top of the rack.

Maybe I'd loaded the front too much relative to the rear end?

I had less stuff after a couple of days when I found a post office and sent stuff home (it was my first tour :D ) . Since then I have made an effort to light my gear (titanium pot etc) and will take next kit next time. I had also never ridden the bike fully loaded before. The first time was at the start of this trip after having driven 200 miles, put the luggage on the bike and set off in a wobbly manner into the Yorkshire Wolds.

i found it only wobbled up to about 6mph, after that it was okay. Maybe that isn't actually too bad? However, never having toured before it was a bit disconcerting to start with.

PH
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Postby PH » 15 Oct 2018, 9:30pm

jerg wrote:Sorry if I'm derailling this thread !

We're already down that road, such is the nature of forums...
While not wishing to discourage anyone from a new bike or tell anyone what camping gear to take - My experience is that spending far less than the cost of a new bike of camping gear has enabled me to take what I need for my touring on just about any bike. It also makes the cycling more enjoyable, though that's as subjective as everything else...

jerg
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Postby jerg » 15 Oct 2018, 9:43pm

While not wishing to discourage anyone from a new bike or tell anyone what camping gear to take - My experience is that spending far less than the cost of a new bike of camping gear has enabled me to take what I need for my touring on just about any bike. It also makes the cycling more enjoyable, though that's as subjective as everything else..


Your probably right. My camping stuff is antiquated. My sleeping bag dates back to 1986 and my thermarest to 1992.

Brucey
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Postby Brucey » 15 Oct 2018, 9:47pm

FWIW the Vaya is rated for ASTM condition 2 riding. In the instruction manual it advises that any load over 15lbs is best shared between front and rear. It also says that 30lbs/14kg is the maximum luggage load, unless you are touring or trekking in which case the maximum load is 55lbs/25kg.

I don't understand why there are two luggage ratings. But I'd be surprised if a 'light touring' frame would handle a 55lb luggage load without (especially in larger sizes) having some wobbles. A heavier built frame would handle the load but probably wouldn't be as nice to ride unladen.

cheers
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531colin
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Postby 531colin » 16 Oct 2018, 10:28am

The general recommendation is to put heavy stuff on the back (but as far forward on the back as you can, if that's not too contradictory) and light bulky stuff on the front. Having said that, if you loaded up the front and set off with the same pressure in the front tyre as you use un-loaded, then the difference in steering feel would most likely have you "tacking" until you got a bit above walking pace.
Surly's Trucker has an enviable reputation as a load-carrying bike. I did take a look at it a few years ago, so it might have changed or my recollection might be faulty!
As I recall, Surly do the steering geometry 2 different ways on the 2 wheel sizes. On one wheel size, the offset and head angle are the same throughout the bike size range, on the other the offset is constant, but the angle changes with size. The bike is also unusual in that the top tube is the same diameter as the down tube, most bikes have a bigger down tube than top tube. (although I still have an Orbit where seat, top and down tubes are all the same diameter.) Surly also stick with the same tube diameters for a big range of sizes, as far as I recall. (this is usual)
So I would expect riders of the different size bikes to have different experiences of their load-lugging capabilities, but that isn't their reputation.
The Wayfarer is pretty new, so there aren't many "out there" and there hasn't been a magazine review. However, the frame tube sizes are largely similar to Spa's tourer (and vary similarly with bike size), and there are plenty of tourers in use. The Wayfarer's fork is a bit stiffer to cope with the disc brake, and it has a slacker head angle/longer offset steering geometry for loaded stability.
In all fairness, Wayfarer won't be an exciting bike to ride unloaded, but it is the sort of undemanding ride which will look after you on farm tracks rather than try to put you in the hedge, and bring you safely back home when you are shattered.

slowster
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Postby slowster » 22 Oct 2018, 2:29pm

531colin, according to Spa's website the Wayfarer has clearance for up to 40mm tyres with mudguards. You've commented in the past that you use 47mm Marathons, presumably on your Ti Roughstuff and with (53mm? 55mm? 60mm?) mudguards. Does that mean the Ti Roughstuff has larger clearances than the Wayfarer, or are Spa being conservative in specifying 40mm for the Wayfarer?

For the tracks I ride most of the time, 40mm is OK, but I do have to concentrate more and be more careful about my choice of line compared with when I've ridden the same tracks with 50mm tyres.

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531colin
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Postby 531colin » 22 Oct 2018, 8:56pm

Clearances are essentially the same on Roughstuff and Wayfarer.
I can get 47mm Marathon Greenguard tyres on mine, with a 10mm gap under the guards, which are about 60mm wide (extended 26" guards, as it happens)
There are lots of constraints on the system.
Unless you use an MTB chain-line (with its attendant increase in "Q" factor) about the biggest gap you can get between the chainstays is 60mm, without denting the chainstays to clear the tyre/chainwheel. The fork crown has about the same tyre clearance (LC 33 crown is used...see Ceeway website for lots of fork crowns). Clearance above the tyre is limited because people want to use mini-vee brakes, and there is a limited amount of adjustment unless you want to start fabricating mudguard fittings.

slowster
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Postby slowster » 22 Oct 2018, 11:03pm

Thank you for the detailed reply. The Wayfarer fork crown certainly looks like it has a lot of clearance to spare in the photograph of the bike viewed from the front, which was what prompted me to post my query.

All I need to do now is decide whether the Wayfarer's blue would look better with black or silver components :wink: .

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531colin
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Postby 531colin » 23 Oct 2018, 7:51pm

slowster wrote:Thank you for the detailed reply. The Wayfarer fork crown certainly looks like it has a lot of clearance to spare in the photograph of the bike viewed from the front, which was what prompted me to post my query.

All I need to do now is decide whether the Wayfarer's blue would look better with black or silver components :wink: .

Bike is probably assembled with 32 or 35mm tyres and the mudguard bottomed.
I see Spa's website is already changed to "clearance for 47mm tyres"