Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

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Vantage
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Post by Vantage »

I see Spa are now listing the Wayfarer as being available in a 'short' or 'long' version.
Whats that all about? No geometry figures as yet.
Bill


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colin54
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Post by colin54 »

Edit, Post removed in light of Slowster's information to avoid any confusion.
Last edited by colin54 on 29 Aug 2019, 12:24pm, edited 1 time in total.
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slowster
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Post by slowster »

On the 'Relative weights of Spa touring and Audax bikes with and without discs' thread back in March 531Colin said that the next batch of Wayfarer frames would be different:

531colin wrote:If you want a Wayfarer with Canti. studs, don't wait too long, because the second generation of Wayfarers will be disc only. (and also a touch longer than the first lot.)

I spoke to John at Spa the other day to enquire about them, and he is not sure when he will be able to get the geometry details of the frames up on the website. From what he said I think also he does not have both sets of geometries for the 'short' and 'long' frames on his computer, and is going to have to ask 531Colin for them before he can update the website. John said I should ask 531Colin on this forum for the geometries in the meantime, although it was not absolutely clear to me whether he meant ask 531Colin via PM for geometry details or to do so on the forum and for 531Colin to publish them on the forum. The latter would make more sense to me, because in 531Colin's shoes I would not want to be receiving and responding to multiple PM requests from interested forum members (and potential Wayfarer customers who read this thread will not necessarily be forum members).

Anyway, probably the more important point for many potential Wayfarer customers to note is that the 'long' frames are disc specific with no studs for cantilevers or v brakes. Only the 'short' frames give you the option of using either discs or cantilevers/v brakes.

Spa's website description of the frames obviously needs to be updated to make that clear as well as showing the two different geometries, and presumably the omission of the studs is the main reason for most of the very slight differences in the quoted weights, e.g. the blue forks are 30g heavier.
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Vantage
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Post by Vantage »

I'm just curious as to why the longer model though.
I did think the same as colin54 that it might be to facilitate flat bar users but that would seem an awful lot of messing about with frame geometries when it's simpler just to add a longer stem.
Maybe it's to please grumpy, awkward buggers like me who like to have kickstands? :lol:
Wishful thinking I know.
Bill


“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx
It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Does longer in this context mean longer top tube? Or longer chain stays? (Top tubes would seem more likely given the flat bars comments but chain stays seem more relevant to Vantage's comment about kick stands.)

Hopefully 531 Colin will be able to answer this and more soon.
LollyKat
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Post by LollyKat »

As noted above, Thorn do 'long' and 'short' versions of some of their models, to be used with flat or drop bars respectively. The extra length is in the top tube. Too long a stem can lead to a 'tiller' effect which can be disconcerting.
reohn2
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Post by reohn2 »

LollyKat wrote:As noted above, Thorn do 'long' and 'short' versions of some of their models, to be used with flat or drop bars respectively. The extra length is in the top tube. Too long a stem can lead to a 'tiller' effect which can be disconcerting.

Yet dropbarred bikes have the most tiller effect steering,albeit most drops aren't as wide as most flats
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PH
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Post by PH »

reohn2 wrote:
LollyKat wrote:As noted above, Thorn do 'long' and 'short' versions of some of their models, to be used with flat or drop bars respectively. The extra length is in the top tube. Too long a stem can lead to a 'tiller' effect which can be disconcerting.

Yet dropbarred bikes have the most tiller effect steering,albeit most drops aren't as wide as most flats

I think you may have misunderstood, your hands (In all positions other than the tops) are further forward on drops so you have a shorter top tube.
I've changed my Hewitt back and forth between drops and flats and used a 15mm longer stem with flats, both work comfort wise, but for some X factor unknown it's a bike I prefer with drops.
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531colin
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Post by 531colin »

Just tinkering with the top tube length so that its closer to the reach of the long-established rim brake tourer, size for size.
To give a bit more confidence when "sizing" customers over the phone.
Effective top tubes....
47cm....544mm
50cm....555mm
54cm....573mm
58cm....587mm
reohn2
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Post by reohn2 »

PH wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
LollyKat wrote:As noted above, Thorn do 'long' and 'short' versions of some of their models, to be used with flat or drop bars respectively. The extra length is in the top tube. Too long a stem can lead to a 'tiller' effect which can be disconcerting.

Yet dropbarred bikes have the most tiller effect steering,albeit most drops aren't as wide as most flats

I think you may have misunderstood, your hands (In all positions other than the tops) are further forward on drops so you have a shorter top tube.
I've changed my Hewitt back and forth between drops and flats and used a 15mm longer stem with flats, both work comfort wise, but for some X factor unknown it's a bike I prefer with drops.

No,I haven't misunderstood.The further the hands from the pivot point the more the tiller effect.
I'll admit though my previous post was mischievous :wink:
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LittleGreyCat
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Post by LittleGreyCat »

531colin wrote:Just tinkering with the top tube length so that its closer to the reach of the long-established rim brake tourer, size for size.
To give a bit more confidence when "sizing" customers over the phone.
Effective top tubes....
47cm....544mm
50cm....555mm
54cm....573mm
58cm....587mm


Ummm.......is my first generation Wayfarer short or long?
Or just different?
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531colin
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Post by 531colin »

First generation (canti/Vee brake mounts as well as disc brake mounts) = short
see https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=131677&start=30 as well.
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Post by slowster »

For the record and further to the posts on the previous page regarding the Wayfarer's tyre clearance, my Wayfarer comfortably takes 50-622 / 28" x 2.00" Schwalbe Marathon Supremes. That is largely because the tyres actually measure only 45mm wide on my 19mm internal width rims (Exal DC19).

The limiting factor on tyre width is the Wayfarer's chainstay clearance. I can comfortably insert a 4mm allen key between the chainstays and the sides of the tyre, whereas the gap is more than 6mm at the seat stays and the fork crown. I suspect that the same tyres on a 21mm internal width rim like the Ryde Andra 321 would be too close to the chainstays or even touch them.
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Re: Spa Cycles' D'Tour vs. Wayfarer

Post by slowster »

Reviving this thread because I see that a new disc braked tourer, the D'Tour, is on Spa's website, with an ETA of 30/4/21 (presumably subject to the container ship carrying them being able to sail through the Suez Canal in a straight line). At the moment it is only being advertised as a complete bike.

Information on the website is limited, e.g. no geometry. It looks very similar to the 'long' version of the Wayfarer, i.e. disc specific with no cantilever bosses and a long wheelbase, but the stated tyre clearance with mudguards is 40mm compared with 47mm for the Wayfarer.

I've come to the conclusion that John Pocklington is a marketing genius. By not providing more comprehensive information about new frames, he knows that he will prompt more online questions and discussion about them.

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s225p4769/SPA-CYCLES-DTour-%28ETA-30th-April-2021%29

D'Tour
Image

Wayfarer (short top tube)
Image
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531colin
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Re: Spa Cycles' Disc Braked Tourer and Audax

Post by 531colin »

The bikes are more similar than different. Both are steel, disc braked tourers.
Wayfarer is designed as an expedition tourer/roughstuff machine, with a high Bb against pedal strike and generous tyre clearance (47mm tyres and 10mm daylight under the guards).
D'Tour is a more recent design, so the chainstays are "waisted" to avoid a clash between the chainstay and crank arm with the current shimano road double chainsets. Tyre clearance for 40mm tyres with 10mm clear under the guards. Top tube length on the D'Tour is comparable with the longer Wayfarer.

The original Wayfarer was a short top tube design with fittings for both disc and cantilever brakes. However, I was out-voted on both counts, so now there is (at least) 2 variants of Wayfarer, with short and regular top tubes, and I can't remember if the canti. studs are current or not.
When I designed D'Tour it had several differences from Wayfarer; now there are 2 versions of Wayfarer the differences are less. I think we are probably due for a "weeding out" of designs which aren't commercial.
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