yostumpy wrote:i dont understand why bikes have adopted the full outer approach on the rear cable, when cable stops, and exposed cables have been used for years and proved to be more effective, and easier to clean the cables.
With a rear disc caliper on the chainstay there's less chance of water ingress from the front wheel because the cable has to pass by the BB either under it or over it. Our Cannondale had the caliper mounted on the seatstay and exposed inner wire along the top tubes with a stop in front of the stokers seattube outer cable down the seatstay to the caliper.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Have you looked at the setup instructions? I found careful adjustment of the angle of the lever at the caliper end makes a big difference, and once set the best way to maintain the correct angle is to take up pad wear by adjusting the pads, not by adjusting the cables. In addition check the routing of the cable over the caliper arm - one of mine was set up incorrectly by the LBS who installed them.
TRP have produced some excellent videos.
In addition I do find with mine that under some circumstances its difficult to put plenty of leverage from the brake hoods with my Claris brifters if I'm gripping the lever too far up (hand size problem!)
Brompton, Condor Heritage, creaky joints and thinning white (formerly grey) hair ""You know you're getting old when it's easier to ride a bike than to get on and off it" - quote from observant jogger !
Setup instructions? What are they? Only joking. I will have a look this evening and see what is in them.
I had to go home this morning and took the opportunity to look at the brakes again. When I apply pressure to the levers, the pads move in until they touch, but there is then about another 5mm of cable movement in the back brake presumably due to stretch or compression. Front brake about 2mm. If there is no compression or stretch in the brake cables, then am I right to think that once the pads touch, there should be very little movement after that point?
Just been out in the shed for a look at the bike and the cables are the problem. They are standard, non compressionless type and after the pads touch the discs, any extra effort goes into straightening the cables, so that is presumably where all my effort is going.
Any recommendations on compressionless cable kits? TRP or Jagwire?
I've also had a look at my main bike (full size V brakes) and wondering if I would notice an improvement with compressionless on that as well, although the amount of cable outer is much less.
(Sorry if this thread is now merging with the other one on compressionless cables.)
Hydraulic have the potential to be far better than cable. Ye Canne change the laws of physics. That said, I would rather rely on cable purely because failure is rarely total and without due warning and a fix is often possible on the roadside.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
interesting contris, anyone considered Nokon cabling, I have them on both my E bikes [ kits fitted] dual pivot long drops and there ain't any compression... period.. will
For all-weather road use I would swing towards cable operated discs as 'good enough' and easier to live with (maintenance is more frequent, but easier, and you won't run out of brake pad without noticing that they are wearing).
Re cable compression; this undoubtedly increases the work required (force x distance at the lever) to get the brake on, but (perhaps controversially) I don't think it always makes the brake less powerful per se, not by itself. What really does that is friction in the cables, and that is load dependant. If fact if the stiffness of the inner and the outer is merely different from one another, that is probably a good thing in that the sticking friction (part of the whole) need not be overcome all at once.
So ultra stiff housing may work by being stiffer than the inner cable and other housing that is quite squashy may make the brakes feel terrible but mightn't actually make them less powerful per se. If the stiffness of the housing and the inner cable is exactly matched, then the sticking friction has to be overcome all at once, and this may result in impaired brake power and poorer modulation. Of course squashy housings may well also have more friction because one way they become squashy is the turns in the spiral start to collapse and bind on the inner cable.
BTW Nokon cabling is interesting stuff; in principle, under tension, the cable adopts a 'thruppenny bit' shape inside it, which presumably means the cable flexes in a different way to normal as the brake is applied. Whether this has any effect on how the brake feels or works I don't know.
Regardless of the cable type, reducing the effects of friction (sticking friction and/or dynamic friction) is likely to have the greatest effect. Unfortunately because the friction is load dependant, it cannot easily be 'felt' at the lever, apart from the 'no load' friction. By the time you feel much 'no load' friction, the cables are probably in a terrible state and have been robbing you of brake power hand over fist for months.
One of these days I plan to show (via practical experiment, i.e. force in vs force out) how changes in cable type, routing and condition actually influence brake power and (by measuring sticking friction levels) how it is liable to influence brake modulation. Colin gently hinted that 'someone' should have a go at this about five years ago, and I might finally get round to it yet....
I’ve used Nokon with V brakes before and found it to be excellent but I’ve not used it with cable discs mostly due to the cost and Jagwire compressionless being ‘good enough’ when prepped well.
One thing I did find annoying with the Nokon stuff is that it creaked, cured with a light oil lube but only until the next wet ride when it all washed out again. Also it’s susceptible to corrosion in winter with salty roads so you need to take steps to lube and regularly check re-lube it if you use it on a bad weather bike.
Graham O wrote:Setup instructions? What are they? Only joking. I will have a look this evening and see what is in them.
I had to go home this morning and took the opportunity to look at the brakes again. When I apply pressure to the levers, the pads move in until they touch, but there is then about another 5mm of cable movement in the back brake presumably due to stretch or compression. Front brake about 2mm. If there is no compression or stretch in the brake cables, then am I right to think that once the pads touch, there should be very little movement after that point?
I should have added - when I adjust mine I look carefully at the gap between each pad and the disc, and gently squeeze the brake lever - if one pad touches the disc before the other the disc will bend slightly, and I simply adjust the pads until both pads touch at the same time and the disc doesn't bend. That does the trick!
Also - compressionless outers are necessary on these.
Brompton, Condor Heritage, creaky joints and thinning white (formerly grey) hair ""You know you're getting old when it's easier to ride a bike than to get on and off it" - quote from observant jogger !
So which cables are good and which ones are bad with TRP Spyre?
Same question for outers?
Same question for pads?
I have an upcoming tour in the mountains and so may change them before I go - although they were all new in December and I've mostly been using another bike so probably have less than 1000 miles of use
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