Compressionless brake housings for cable discs.

[peetee]

I tried fitting compressionless cable to a bike with concealed brake cables and it was a disaster as the friction around the handlebar bend section jammed the inner cable. I suspect the outer just flattened out as there is very little spiral winding to maintain a round cross-section. Perhaps trimming the cable ends after the cable has been positioned would alleviate the issue by ensuring the end caps don't compress particular strands. I would welcome comments.

[Brucey]

I tried fitting compressionless cable to a bike with concealed brake cables and it was a disaster as the friction around the handlebar bend section jammed the inner cable. I suspect the outer just flattened out as there is very little spiral winding to maintain a round cross-section. Perhaps trimming the cable ends after the cable has been positioned would alleviate the issue by ensuring the end caps don't compress particular strands. I would welcome comments.

Hence my suggestion of using flexi-noodles in tight bends.

BTW grinding cable ends square whilst the housing is shaped into a curve that is similar to the final shape is my SOP. Makes most difference with gear and compressionless outer.

cheers

[zenitb]

Been my practice since the early 90's and never had a failure yet

your conditions of use may not represent those of others and besides which it is specifically forbidden by cable manufacturers.

A russion roulette player could say 'its never done me any harm', too....

cheers

I agree with Brucey and have actually seen these fail. The longitudinal strands of the gear cable outer cannot take the compression and simply collapse around the inner, popping out either side and folding over. Not a good look !!!

[Cunobelin]

Been my practice since the early 90's and never had a failure yet

your conditions of use may not represent those of others and besides which it is specifically forbidden by cable manufacturers.

A russion roulette player could say 'its never done me any harm', too....

cheers

I agree with Brucey and have actually seen these fail. The longitudinal strands of the gear cable outer cannot take the compression and simply collapse around the inner, popping out either side and folding over. Not a good look !!!

Thousands of miles and hasn't happened yet.....

[amediasatex]

Hasn’t happen yet to you...

It’s a logical fallacy to assume that since it hasn’t yet happened that it won’t or can’t happen, especially as you have several people on here with contrary experience.

You might get away with it till the end of your days, but it IS a genuine risk, with quite severe consequences, and not really worth taking the risk when it’s so easy to avoid by using the correct outer (either spiral brake or compressionless outer with reinforcement), what’s the point of taking the risk, is it saving 50p? or is it some kind of feeling that you’ve ‘beaten’ the system by bodging something to work that shouldn’t?

I can understand doing it as a stop gap on tour if you have no other outer or something, but for normal use it just makes no sense to me not to use the right stuff when it’s so easily available with literally no downside. :-s

[Mick F]

Two things:
Well, three really!

The new Jagwire outer arrived as I said. I've given it a good looking-at, and I suspect that it's so stiff, it will interfere with the steering where the cable exits the 'bar tape and goes down to the boss on the cross-bar.
If I were to fit a front cable too, the steering could well be affected to its detriment.
Until I fit it, I won't know.

The 14" rear section that is at the moment a gear cable albeit reinforced with heatshrink - of which I could fit another layer perhaps - seems fine to me, so it struck me this morning that I could leave it there and use my one metre of Jagwire to do both the front section of the rear brake as well as the whole of the front brake. Yet to measure up to see if that would be enough.

Also, I'm off in the car to take it for a service to Toyota Plympton shortly. Putting Mercian in the back and going for a 25mile ride round the South Hams whilst they do the service and MOT etc, so won't be back on here until mid afternoon.

May have a tinker after getting back, or may wait until tomorrow.

[amediasatex]

I think you’d be ok with the Jagwire Mick, I’ve had it fitted to a couple of my own bikes for a few years (one with drops, one with flat bars) with no issues or interference with steering.

I’ve also fitted somewhere in the region of 50 sets of the same or very similar to other people’s bikes over the years and only had real issues on two or three bikes, one with narrow and very compact drops where the bends were too tight and I had to use noodles, and a couple with extremely short head tubes and v-brakes meaning there wasn’t much room to get a good radius bend and it pushed against the other cable which were also tight bends to the cable stop on top tube.

If you, or anyone else, does fit them a top tip is to file and finish the ends of the cable AFTER you’ve routed them as you can find the bends cause individual longitudinal strands to push out at the ends a bit. File or grind the ends once they’re routed and you’ll get a much better fit and feel as they’ll mate with the ferrules better.

[Cunobelin]

Hasn’t happen yet to you...

It’s a logical fallacy to assume that since it hasn’t yet happened that it won’t or can’t happen, especially as you have several people on here with contrary experience.

You might get away with it till the end of your days, but it IS a genuine risk, with quite severe consequences, and not really worth taking the risk when it’s so easy to avoid by using the correct outer (either spiral brake or compressionless outer with reinforcement), what’s the point of taking the risk, is it saving 50p? or is it some kind of feeling that you’ve ‘beaten’ the system by bodging something to work that shouldn’t?

I can understand doing it as a stop gap on tour if you have no other outer or something, but for normal use it just makes no sense to me not to use the right stuff when it’s so easily available with literally no downside. :-s

Also a logical fallacy that because it hasn't happened yet that it will......

Works fine for me

[Brucey]

Also a logical fallacy that because it hasn't happened yet that it will......

not really; these cable housings get old and fail quite often even when used as intended. It is only a matter of time until they fail if used as brake housings.

cheers

[Brucey]

If I were to fit a front cable too, the steering could well be affected to its detriment.

front cable won't affect the steering, but might affect the suspension

cheers

[amediasatex]

Also a logical fallacy that because it hasn't happened yet that it will......

I'm not suggesting it will happen to you, but I am saying that it can happen, does happen, and has been proven to happen, and regularly enough to be a real concern. Safer alternatives are available at pretty much the same cost and with no downside.

Works fine for me

I may simply be mis-reading your intentions as it's hard to infer tone online, so please clear something up for me, you're repeatedly posting on here saying "it's fine for for me", are you trying to say:

A> It's fine for others to use because it's been fine for you

OR

B> you've been lucky so far

What I'm trying to work out is if you're suggesting or endorsing that other people use it. That's the crux of my concern, there are genuine risks to using it and the idea of other people being encouraged to use it worries me*, especially as the alternatives are readily available.

It's akin to riding on tyres with bulges or severely worn/damaged (or any other component), you might stay lucky for many many miles, but there is a real risk of sudden blowout and injury yet I doubt anyone would endorse using damaged tyres on the basis of "worked fine for me" for a while.

* perhaps it shouldn't, I've got no horse in this race other than not wanting to see people hurt so perhaps I should trust people to make their own judgements of risk, but the problem is I've seen many many people do very silly things and run with dangerous equipment over the years based on "my mate said it was OK" or even just through not having the issues pointed out to them.

[PH]

Also a logical fallacy that because it hasn't happened yet that it will......
Works fine for me

Why bother with brakes at all?
I see loads of bikes without, the riders are all fine, nothing untoward has happened to them, so obviously a logical fallacy that they need them...
What else do you apply this theory to?

[Cunobelin]

Also a logical fallacy that because it hasn't happened yet that it will......
Works fine for me

Why bother with brakes at all?
I see loads of bikes without, the riders are all fine, nothing untoward has happened to them, so obviously a logical fallacy that they need them...
What else do you apply this theory to?

An absurd misinterpretation of my post..... if you are really THAT desperate

What else do you apply this theory to?

I also ride a Unicycle, (exempt from brakes as the fixed wheel counts as a brake) by your obtuse reasoning

Why bother with second or third wheels at all?
I see loads of unicycles without a second or third wheel, the riders are all fine, nothing untoward has happened to them, so obviously a logical fallacy that bicycles need a second or third wheel..

[peetee]

If I were to fit a front cable too, the steering could well be affected to its detriment.

front cable won't affect the steering, but might affect the suspension

cheers

Further to my post about the cable collapsing on the handlebar bend, what is described above I also experienced, now that I remember. The front brake cable was so resistant to bending that it restricted the (rim brake) caliper from opening evenly.

[Brucey]

not a danger on Mick's moulton

cheers