Chain Care

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
rjb
Posts: 3059
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 10:25am
Location: Somerset (originally 60/70's Plymouth)

Re: Chain Care

Postby rjb » 31 Jan 2019, 1:15pm

Why would the S/A show 5% wear and the Rohloff negligable wear with the same chains and riding environment. Are they covering the same milage?
Any thoughts ?
At the last count:- Focus Variado, Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, 2 Dawes Kingpins, Raleigh 20, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, On One Pompino, Longstaff trike conversion on a Falcon corsa. :D

Brucey
Posts: 32274
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Chain Care

Postby Brucey » 31 Jan 2019, 5:13pm

5% wear? I see that as .5% i.e. 0.5%

It is easy to miss the "." because it is often only displayed as one pixel.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tiberius
Posts: 443
Joined: 31 Dec 2014, 8:45am
Location: North East England

Re: Chain Care

Postby Tiberius » 1 Feb 2019, 8:15am

alexnharvey wrote:Did you find measuring wear difficult on a waxed chain? I have found this tricky, possibly because wax partially fills the worn interstices. Is that why you are stripping then before measuring?


Yes, more or less.

My thinking was that measuring a freshly cleaned chain-no wax/lube/anything-on it would give me a more accurate measurement of how the chain was wareing.
Last edited by Tiberius on 1 Feb 2019, 9:15am, edited 1 time in total.

rjb
Posts: 3059
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 10:25am
Location: Somerset (originally 60/70's Plymouth)

Re: Chain Care

Postby rjb » 1 Feb 2019, 8:27am

Brucey wrote:5% wear? I see that as .5% i.e. 0.5%

It is easy to miss the "." because it is often only displayed as one pixel.

cheers


Sorry everyone, should have gone to Specsavers. :oops:
At the last count:- Focus Variado, Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, 2 Dawes Kingpins, Raleigh 20, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, On One Pompino, Longstaff trike conversion on a Falcon corsa. :D

Tiberius
Posts: 443
Joined: 31 Dec 2014, 8:45am
Location: North East England

Re: Chain Care

Postby Tiberius » 1 Feb 2019, 9:14am

rjb wrote:Why would the S/A show 5% wear and the Rohloff negligable wear with the same chains and riding environment. Are they covering the same milage?
Any thoughts ?


As Brucey quite rightly pointed out, the wear IS 'point five percent'

I have no idea why the chain wear is greater on the Surmey bike. I had a feeling that I may have screwed up something re chainline but all seems well. The Sturmey sprocket and Thorn chainring are both fairly new. TBH, I'm not THAT bothered about the chain wear. I will keep my eye on everything and dump the cheap chains after winter.

To add. Day to day running bikes without oily chains is (to me) a revelation. I don't think that I will rest until I have tried belt drive. I've read up on the 'Pros/Cons' and I still fancy it...Being a born 'fiddler' can be such a curse.... :mrgreen:

In my motorcyclimg days I ran a number oF BMWs....Shaft drive.....NO CHAINS !!!....

Brucey
Posts: 32274
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Chain Care

Postby Brucey » 1 Feb 2019, 9:36am

"cyclists of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains"

as one wag put it. A major stumbling block with both shaft and belt drives is that they make all kinds of routine maintenance that bit more difficult (and in many cases cause problems; belt drive sprockets are frequently somewhat underengineered where they mount onto IGHs and cause problems more often than they should). If you are wondering if there is a problem with the chainline on a chain drive bike, note that the tolerances required for belt drive are far more demanding. Another feature shared by these transmissions is that they are not very efficient. The losses are magnified greatly whenever there is a pulsey torque running through the transmission; thus strapping a big V twin engine to a belt drive smooths it out somewhat but also costs plenty in extra losses. Bicycles are powered by the most pulsey engine of all; legs.

If you want a clean, low maintenance trnsmission and you already have an IGH, then a full chaincase is a very good solution. A good 1/8" chain will last about 20000 miles inside a chaincase.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tiberius
Posts: 443
Joined: 31 Dec 2014, 8:45am
Location: North East England

Re: Chain Care

Postby Tiberius » 1 Feb 2019, 3:09pm

Brucey.....Have you any experience of this chain?..https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/chains/wipp ... 112-links/

I'm liking the sound of 'Galvanised'

Brucey
Posts: 32274
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Chain Care

Postby Brucey » 1 Feb 2019, 4:43pm

not used that one; I have used cheaper ones that are galvanised and they seemed to wear more quickly than the equivalent chain models which are not galvanised. One theory is that the galvanising soon wears off the side plates and turns the lubricant into abrasive porridge.

In terms of preventing corrosion yes it works in that the chain doesn't look superficially rusty, but it doesn't stop the inside of the chain bushings from corroding, which is arguably a more significant problem.

Stainless steel chains are worth a look if you want the chain to be wiped clean on the outside and not to look bad/go rusty; however again the bushings can corrode (not all the chain parts are stainless). A stainless chain might work well in combination with a wax lube.

KMC use a coating they call ecoprotek (or something like that) on some chain models which is meant to stop rusting on chains that are just plated. Again I dunno how good that really is in the face of road salt.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tiberius
Posts: 443
Joined: 31 Dec 2014, 8:45am
Location: North East England

Re: Chain Care

Postby Tiberius » 2 Feb 2019, 7:45am

Brucey wrote:not used that one; I have used cheaper ones that are galvanised and they seemed to wear more quickly than the equivalent chain models which are not galvanised. One theory is that the galvanising soon wears off the side plates and turns the lubricant into abrasive porridge.

In terms of preventing corrosion yes it works in that the chain doesn't look superficially rusty, but it doesn't stop the inside of the chain bushings from corroding, which is arguably a more significant problem.

Stainless steel chains are worth a look if you want the chain to be wiped clean on the outside and not to look bad/go rusty; however again the bushings can corrode (not all the chain parts are stainless). A stainless chain might work well in combination with a wax lube.

KMC use a coating they call ecoprotek (or something like that) on some chain models which is meant to stop rusting on chains that are just plated. Again I dunno how good that really is in the face of road salt.

cheers



Many thanks for the advice.....Appreciated.

alexnharvey
Posts: 484
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:39am

Re: Chain Care

Postby alexnharvey » 2 Feb 2019, 8:19am

As with all things, the balance is value. You can have 1.5 to 2 b1s for the price of the b1rb "rust buster". Similarly, stainless chains are going to be more expensive.

I think if using wax it may be better to accept and try to minimise the external corrosion during winter and rotate more chains, allowing several to be rewaxed in batches.

Are you using the speedwax powder additives (MoS2 and PTFE) Tiberius?

I've also been thinking about the balance of beeswax to paraffin wax. I believe beeswax is softer and slightly stickier. I bought a 10% beeswax blend from a candle making supplier. It would be interesting to increase the beeswax a little.

Tiberius
Posts: 443
Joined: 31 Dec 2014, 8:45am
Location: North East England

Re: Chain Care

Postby Tiberius » 2 Feb 2019, 2:57pm

alexnharvey wrote:As with all things, the balance is value. You can have 1.5 to 2 b1s for the price of the b1rb "rust buster". Similarly, stainless chains are going to be more expensive.

I think if using wax it may be better to accept and try to minimise the external corrosion during winter and rotate more chains, allowing several to be rewaxed in batches.

You may well be right. I was surprised how quickly the chains started to rust.


Are you using the speedwax powder additives (MoS2 and PTFE) Tiberius?

No, just the Speedwax, I havent got involved with their race powder


I've also been thinking about the balance of beeswax to paraffin wax. I believe beeswax is softer and slightly stickier. I bought a 10% beeswax blend from a candle making supplier. It would be interesting to increase the beeswax a little.

Yes, I can see myself experimenting with different waxes once this bag of Speedwax is done


alexnharvey
Posts: 484
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:39am

Re: Chain Care

Postby alexnharvey » 2 Feb 2019, 4:51pm

Ah, I think your speedwax has the PTFE and MoS2 powders premixed.

I've run my new chain with its original oil for a couple of weeks and now it will get stripped in solvent then waxed tomorrow.

Scunnered
Posts: 188
Joined: 11 Apr 2014, 11:23am

Re: Chain Care

Postby Scunnered » 5 Feb 2019, 10:21am

Anyone tried a Titanium Nitride coated chain?
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/chains/kmc-x10el-tin-11128-inch-10-speed-chain-114-links-gold/

Titanium Nitride is hard and also corrosion resistant.

mig
Posts: 1890
Joined: 19 Oct 2011, 9:39pm

Re: Chain Care

Postby mig » 5 Feb 2019, 10:58am

Tiberius wrote:Brucey.....Have you any experience of this chain?..https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/chains/wipp ... 112-links/

I'm liking the sound of 'Galvanised'


my winter bike munched one of those in about 600 miles. admittedly through some bad conditions but i never went back.

i used to get relatively fancy chains on my racing steed many years ago but now go for pretty much bog standard jobs and face up to the fact that they're consumables, especially since most of my miles are on fixed with 1/8th chains.

MikeDee
Posts: 546
Joined: 11 Dec 2014, 8:36pm

Re: Chain Care

Postby MikeDee » 6 Feb 2019, 3:27pm

Scunnered wrote:Anyone tried a Titanium Nitride coated chain?
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/chains/kmc-x10el-tin-11128-inch-10-speed-chain-114-links-gold/

Titanium Nitride is hard and also corrosion resistant.


The problem with coatings is that they eventually wear off.