pedal perils; can cheap pedals be any good?

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bgnukem
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Re: pedal perils; can cheap pedals be any good?

Post by bgnukem »

Creates a lot of pressure for sure, enough to push the bearing sleeve fitted inside the Wellgo pedal body out of position if too much grease is used. Best to grease little and often!

The WPD801s are cheap and good though, I reckon, the bearings seem to go on forever if occasionally greased via the end cap and the pedal release mechanisms have been pretty hard wearing, though the bearing sleeve (and small cartridge bearing on the outer end of the axle) are probably not that efficient.
Ulysse91
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Joined: 15 Dec 2020, 4:29pm

Re: pedal perils; can cheap pedals be any good?

Post by Ulysse91 »

Brucey wrote:in a similar vein pedals can usually be filled with grease by using thumb pressure (repeatedly) in the (grease filled) dustcap aperture; the amount the thumb 'bulges' by when pressure is applied is enough to force grease through the mechanism.
(...)
cheers


Hello Brucey and All. Thanks a lot for the information of this thread.
Is it stupid to try to lubricate a clipless pedal or a flat pedal with a thick body (a sign that it has real ball bearings, not a Polymer Sleeve), by
-first, cleaning it up, of course, then remove or expose the dustcap to create an entry for the lubricant
-then immerging pedal into a tub filled with thick Engine Oil (viscosity 20W40, for example), a whole night, ambient temperature 15° or higher (garage)
-then picking it out of the tub, let it rest on a heap of rags to drain as much oil as possible
-then wiping away the rest of oil (will need some more rags)
-then wiping with degreaser (cheap gasoline for example) the part of the pedal that must not slip or be oily ?

If the oil reaches the bearings, would the oil ruin the existing grease ? How do oil and grease co-exist ?
I've always had the thought of this dip-lubricating, but still not done it. In my opinion, by not dis-assembling the pedal, and counting on the oil to reach remote places, we can save some labor and time.
Thank you very much !
Brucey
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Re: pedal perils; can cheap pedals be any good?

Post by Brucey »

grease is oil + a thickener. So adding oil to grease usually results in a thinner grease. If this is done in a controlled fashion you can end up with a Semi-Fluid Grease (SFG) which can be a useful lubricant inside hubs, pedals, bottom brackets etc which have at least some seals in them. The worse the seals are, the thicker the lube needs to be to stay put in an acceptable fashion.

However what you are doing by dunking your pedals (other than making a mess, probably) is making an uncontrolled mixture of oil and grease in the bearings, which will end up being mostly oil, and this will probably be so thin that it will be lost wholesale from unsealed/poorly sealed pedal bearings in use.

As a general rule if you want to treat the bearings in the best way, you need to know what sort they are, exactly, how well sealed they are, and whether or not dirt/water is likely to have got into the bearings already.

If, inside the bearings you find different things going on, they will benefit from different approaches.

a) perfectly clean grease; add fresh grease or do nothing
b) clean-ish grease, contaminated with just wear debris; use fresh grease
c) grease that has been contaminated with dirt or water; clean thoroughly and use fresh grease.

In using oil you are presumably hoping that it will either clean the bearings and/or that it will help lubricate them in the long term. Personally I don't think it will do either thing very well.

If you want to spare yourself some future effort then you only need to dismantle the pedals once, and fit them with a lube port. The bearings can subsequently be flushed and/or relubricated via this lube port.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
fastpedaller
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Re: pedal perils; can cheap pedals be any good?

Post by fastpedaller »

Speaking as one who (in his youth) tried car engine oil on his chain, my advice is don't do it!. When some rain got on said chain, a horrible emulsion resulted, and judging by the feel through the pedals the lubrication was reduced to zero. So any water ingress will likely ruin the pedal bearings :(
GeekDadZoid
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Re: pedal perils; can cheap pedals be any good?

Post by GeekDadZoid »

I've just had a pedal issue and note the comments previously with interest.

My hybrids pedals where Welgo flat pedals and have probably been on its entire 13 years of life, they have been fantastic pedals both comfortable and smooth. Oddly the right one went from smooth to a knocking and grinding mess in the space of 3 very wet commutes.

I took it apart and the bearings where very worn and grace seemed to be none existent. I popped into my LBS today who suggested I would be better to buy new pedals than fix these are there is a good chance the cups would be worn too. They had a very similar set of Welgos for £16 so I bit the bullet, hopefully they will last the next 13 years.
ElCani
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Re: pedal perils; can cheap pedals be any good?

Post by ElCani »

If you adjust them properly and add more grease then they might do. Otherwise it’s pot luck, dependent on how they came out of the factory.
mig
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Re: pedal perils; can cheap pedals be any good?

Post by mig »

GeekDadZoid wrote:I've just had a pedal issue and note the comments previously with interest.

My hybrids pedals where Welgo flat pedals and have probably been on its entire 13 years of life, they have been fantastic pedals both comfortable and smooth. Oddly the right one went from smooth to a knocking and grinding mess in the space of 3 very wet commutes.

I took it apart and the bearings where very worn and grace seemed to be none existent. I popped into my LBS today who suggested I would be better to buy new pedals than fix these are there is a good chance the cups would be worn too. They had a very similar set of Welgos for £16 so I bit the bullet, hopefully they will last the next 13 years.


there is a distinct lack of grace across most of society today aye.
cycle tramp
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Re: pedal perils; can cheap pedals be any good?

Post by cycle tramp »

GeekDadZoid wrote:I've just had a pedal issue and note the comments previously with interest.

My hybrids pedals where Welgo flat pedals and have probably been on its entire 13 years of life, they have been fantastic pedals both comfortable and smooth. Oddly the right one went from smooth to a knocking and grinding mess in the space of 3 very wet commutes.

I took it apart and the bearings where very worn and grace seemed to be none existent. I popped into my LBS today who suggested I would be better to buy new pedals than fix these are there is a good chance the cups would be worn too. They had a very similar set of Welgos for £16 so I bit the bullet, hopefully they will last the next 13 years.


Have you still got the old set, and if so would you be looking to sell them? (I've had my own alloy flat pedals for almost 16? 18? years now)
It's time to go :-)
fastpedaller
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Re: pedal perils; can cheap pedals be any good?

Post by fastpedaller »

cycle tramp wrote:
GeekDadZoid wrote:I've just had a pedal issue and note the comments previously with interest.

My hybrids pedals where Welgo flat pedals and have probably been on its entire 13 years of life, they have been fantastic pedals both comfortable and smooth. Oddly the right one went from smooth to a knocking and grinding mess in the space of 3 very wet commutes.

I took it apart and the bearings where very worn and grace seemed to be none existent. I popped into my LBS today who suggested I would be better to buy new pedals than fix these are there is a good chance the cups would be worn too. They had a very similar set of Welgos for £16 so I bit the bullet, hopefully they will last the next 13 years.


Have you still got the old set, and if so would you be looking to sell them? (I've had my own alloy flat pedals for almost 16? 18? years now)

Going rate for those secondhand is £15 :lol:
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Cowsham
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Re: pedal perils; can cheap pedals be any good?

Post by Cowsham »

I've a set of these coming

https://www.cyclesolutions.co.uk/66560/ ... DgEALw_wcB

One-piece plastic body
CroMo axle, sealed
Ball bearing
20 pins per pedal
Weight: 270 g
Type: platform

£9.99 cheap and cheerful but ball bearing pedals
If they're any good I'll bin the du rubbish I have on the bikes and maybe investigate the fully cast alloy ball bearing type.
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Cowsham
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Re: pedal perils; can cheap pedals be any good?

Post by Cowsham »

Oh oh you did say if they're sealed they'll have a set of bloody du bushings as well -- is that right Brucey?
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Brucey
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Re: pedal perils; can cheap pedals be any good?

Post by Brucey »

those pedals look like they should have cup and cone bearings in them, probably with 1/8" balls. But it will only be proven once they turn up.

FWIW if there is a plastic body the bearing inserts may be less likely to work loose if there is a little preload in the pedal bearings, rather than being run with near-zero preload.

In daily use with unsealed pedals, a squirt of aerosol SFG into the inboard bearings whenever you lube the chain (say) will go a long way towards keeping the bearings sweet. A similar squirt through a lube port the other side of the inboard bearing will help flush crud out of that bearing and relube it, all in one go.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Cowsham
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Re: pedal perils; can cheap pedals be any good?

Post by Cowsham »

Thanks Brucey I'll post up my findings with them. On a cast alloy set would a lube port simply be a small hole ( say the diameter of an aerosol lube can strup ) be what you mean? Or is there some non return nipple on yours?

I'd assume you drill with the pedal apart so any swarf is cleaned out before assembly?
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Brucey
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Re: pedal perils; can cheap pedals be any good?

Post by Brucey »

you can do lots of different things. The best is probably to use a tapped hole with a screw in it, but a self-tapping screw will do the job provided you are not expecting the drilling to be oil-tight, and are using grease or SFG in the pedal.

I have also drilled the pedal barrel sometimes where it is parallel-side (which not all pedals are) and then fitted a hub oil clip (eg from a Campagnolo NR hub) to make a lube port.

The reason aerosol SFG works so well is in part because the contents of the can are expanding briskly as they emerge, as the solvent flashes off. This means that provided the delivery tube seals to the lube port reasonably well, the flushing action is considerably more effective than you might at first expect.

FWIW some folk will drill a lube port 'blind', i.e. into an assembled pedal or hub, sparing the work of disassembly. The method is to drill using a setup which produces long curly swarf, and then stop before the drill breaks through. The drill bit is then coated in grease, and the hole completed. Ideally this may produce just two pieces of swarf and these stick to the grease on the drill bit and don't drop inside the work. However not every pedal body will produce curly swarf and of course there are often smaller fragments which drop inside. Having said this , with a plastic body this method might work reasonably well, ditto with a self-tapping screw.

I would comment that cheap pedals don't always come with the correct quantity of balls inside. Note also that if you have seen the insides, you can also gauge rather better where you can drill a hole, unobstructed by the bearing cups and where the material is thick enough to take a screw.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GeekDadZoid
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Re: pedal perils; can cheap pedals be any good?

Post by GeekDadZoid »

fastpedaller wrote:
cycle tramp wrote:
GeekDadZoid wrote:I've just had a pedal issue and note the comments previously with interest.

My hybrids pedals where Welgo flat pedals and have probably been on its entire 13 years of life, they have been fantastic pedals both comfortable and smooth. Oddly the right one went from smooth to a knocking and grinding mess in the space of 3 very wet commutes.

I took it apart and the bearings where very worn and grace seemed to be none existent. I popped into my LBS today who suggested I would be better to buy new pedals than fix these are there is a good chance the cups would be worn too. They had a very similar set of Welgos for £16 so I bit the bullet, hopefully they will last the next 13 years.


Have you still got the old set, and if so would you be looking to sell them? (I've had my own alloy flat pedals for almost 16? 18? years now)

Going rate for those secondhand is £15 :lol:


My plan is to wait untill I do an order from SJS, I can get the bearings for £2 from there if I was going to pay postage for something else anyway and try and fix them. Bearings would have been £6-£8 at the LBS.

My current spare pedals are pretty uncomfortable so it would be good to have decent set in the spares box.
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