Help with dating and perhaps identifying this frame

[pulseezar]

Hi all,

I'm too old for this fixed gear business so am looking at fitting some gears to this frame and turning it into a comfy sportive type bicycle for organised rides and the like.

The frame needs a bit of work doing to it but I wanted to take the opportunity to see if anyone could help me find out an approximate date of manufacture? The holy grail would be a brand or model but that seems unlikely. At the moment I would guess it is late eighties or early nineties but I am no expert. The serial number is obscured by the cable guide on the BB in the photo but is "76820".

FYI the current decals are the name of the previous owner!!

Any clues or pointers would be greatly appreciated

[pulseezar]

A few more snaps...

[Brucey]

my guess it that it is a Raleigh from about the dates that you suggest; they made quite a few frames with slots in the top tube like that to accommodate the rear brake cable. The seat pin diameter gives a clue to the tubing quality; the closer to 'gas pipe' it is, the more likely the frame is to have a 25.4mm seat pin in it.

If it is a Raleigh the unicrown fork (if it is original) puts the bike past a certain date and the fact that the chainstay brace is connected to both chainstays puts it before another date.

For example in this 1995 catalogue (17Mb)

http://veterancycleclublibrary.org.uk/ncl/pics/Raleigh%20catalogue%201995%20(V-CC%20Library).pdf

on p17 you can see several similar looking framesets. In 1994 more of them had lugged type fork crowns. Thinking about it, it is quite likely that only the frames with 501 main tubes (at least) would have had rear dropouts like yours, so that'd be my guess as to the frame tubing.

More Raleigh catalogues here

http://veterancycleclublibrary.org.uk/library/index.php?action=asearch&searchtext=R&tpage=2&items=96

cheers

[pulseezar]

Brucey, that's extremely helpful, thank you!

I'll check out the cost of the respray and perhaps give it a miss this time and invest in a better frame in the future. Think we're definitely in "gas pipe" territory!

Many thanks

[Brucey]

when you have the parts off the frame (everything bar the BB and headset, say) then it isn't a bad idea to weigh the frameset. Deduct about 1lb for the headset and bottom bracket.

The frame and (1" threaded) fork weight (21 to 22" size) can be as follows;

- about 5-1/2lbs = 753 or 653 or 531SL
- about 6lbs = 531C (previously known as 531 DB) or equivalent (eg full 501 tubeset)
- 6 to 7lbs = 531ST (but it varies) or 531 DB main tubes only, or similar
- about 7lbs = decent quality PG tubes
- 8lbs or more = a cheaper PG frame, probably with seamed main tubes etc., or a touring frameset with good quality but heavy gauge PG main tubes and strongly built forks and stays.

A good fork (in say 531 tubing) weighs about 1-1/2 lbs

BTW the paint you have looks OK; probably you could just fit it with a new set of decals. Frames of that sort sometimes ride OK; if it were mine I'd think about equipping it with a (simple) hub gear and using it in the winter months, when an extra lb or two on the bike is no big deal.

cheers

[iandusud]

Looking at the quality of the lugs I'd guess that it's not a great frameset (sorry). As Brucey says measure the diameter of the seat post. 27.2mm db531 (good!), 26.4mm pg531 (not so good but not bad, however probably only the main tubes). I'm afraid I can't remember what size seat post was fitted with 501 road bike tube sets.

[pulseezar]

So, as accurately as I can I make the external diameter 26mm and the internal 24mm.

I always thought the seat tube was slightly misshapen because my bike shop told me it would take a 27.2mm seatpost, resulting in me forcing in (and scratching the hell out of) a brand new seatpost!

Thanks for your help, next challenge is to find something to work with the campag 9 speed wheel I have in the attic...

[Brucey]

ah! in which case it just might be a Peugeot; IIRC they were built with tapered seat tubes like that...?

cheers

[pulseezar]

I suppose this might be supported by the fact that the wheels it came with had Maillard 700 hubs laced to Mavic MA40 rims, not sure they are original though would lend weight to it being French...probably should have mentioned that before

[Brucey]

those rims and hubs were used by many manufacturers. However at about the time that bike was made, Peugeot wheels were readily identifiable; they usually had spoke nipples with hexagons on the top, not round with a slot as per normal nipples. I believe this feature was unique amongst wheels on mass-produced bikes.

The 24mm seat post is ' a Peugeot thing' and even some frames with 501 tubes have a stepped seat tube, made specially by Reynolds for Peugeot only.

cheers

[pwa]

The lug below the top race of the headset seems to have 74 stamped on it. Isn't it unusual to have anything stamped there?

[iandusud]

So, as accurately as I can I make the external diameter 26mm and the internal 24mm.

I always thought the seat tube was slightly misshapen because my bike shop told me it would take a 27.2mm seatpost, resulting in me forcing in (and scratching the hell out of) a brand new seatpost!

Thanks for your help, next challenge is to find something to work with the campag 9 speed wheel I have in the attic...

Are you saying that the seat post in the photo is 27.2mm? If so then the tubing is almost certainly db531. The fact that you had to force it in resulting in scratching only indicates that the seat tube needs reaming, probably caused by someone fitting an undersized seat post and then over-tightening the clamp to compensate.