Hub dynamo comparison

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andrew_s
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Re: Hub dynamo comparison

Postby andrew_s » 17 Oct 2018, 6:04pm

If you use a dynamo charger (USB-Werk or whatever), and don't want it mounted on the bike full time, the SON hub is easier - you just fit piggy-back spade connectors onto the charger, plug the light connectors onto the piggyback bit, then connect to the hub as normal. To go back to light only, just plug the light spade connectors back directly onto the hub.
With Shimano or SP, you've got to either twist the cable ends for the light and charger together, then fit the plug block to the twisted ends. When you remove the charger, you open up the connector and untwist the wires. Doing this repeatedly will damage the end of the wire, and eventually you'll run out of cable to trim back.
Alternatively, you can fit a DIY connector somewhere along the light cable run. This would be a potential source of connection problems from water or whatever if not done well.

The SON lights are available with coaxial plugs on the end rather than spade connectors, for use with the new coaxial connectors.

Jezrant wrote:Whoops, read that chart incorrectly. :oops:

There's a link to the drawings below each column, in which you can see the 50 mm flange spacing

The 1.5W hubs are really only intended for utility lighting. You shouldn't expect to be able to charge anything usefully, and I doubt you would get the full 80 lux from a Cyo either.

Jezrant
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Re: Hub dynamo comparison

Postby Jezrant » 17 Oct 2018, 10:53pm

thanks folks, very useful and helpful info.

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Vantage
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Re: Hub dynamo comparison

Postby Vantage » 17 Oct 2018, 10:56pm

andrew_s wrote:The 1.5W hubs are really only intended for utility lighting. You shouldn't expect to be able to charge anything usefully, and I doubt you would get the full 80 lux from a Cyo either.


It's been a while since I ran it with the 3n72 but I have to admit, the light does seem to lacking the power it once had.
Bill


“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx
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NUKe
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Re: Hub dynamo comparison

Postby NUKe » 17 Oct 2018, 11:54pm

43k on a Shimano 3n80 in 8 years no problems, 12k on an SP. connector has given a bit of grief, but nothing to worry about. 5k on a bottom end Shimano 3n30 again no problems
NUKe
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zenitb
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Re: Hub dynamo comparison

Postby zenitb » 18 Oct 2018, 2:24pm

Vantage wrote:
andrew_s wrote:The 1.5W hubs are really only intended for utility lighting. You shouldn't expect to be able to charge anything usefully, and I doubt you would get the full 80 lux from a Cyo either.


It's been a while since I ran it with the 3n72 but I have to admit, the light does seem to lacking the power it once had.

Interesting info...I have a Cyo and 3w dynamo for commuting but have been considering a lightweight XT 1.5w + Cyo "get you home" low resistance/weight setup for my day tour bike...good to know the combo at least works...i guess I could rely on a battery LED rear flasher and put all the dynamo power forward...(or maybe just buy the lighter SP dynohub!! :-) )

martinn
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Re: Hub dynamo comparison

Postby martinn » 18 Oct 2018, 9:28pm

I have a Son Delux, works great, quite new, so reliability unknown
I have an USE version of the SP hub, work great very reliable, no problems
I am on my second SP hub, I destroyed the first one after about a year. I am not small (80 ish Kg), but could always make the front wheel move a Little when I climbed, But with the SP hub it was ridiculous. I personally think it was a Duff hub, I have a new one and that's better, much less movement (Same rim in both wheels and same team building them)

Martin

LittleGreyCat
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Re: Hub dynamo comparison

Postby LittleGreyCat » 29 Oct 2018, 6:23pm

So, just checking.
For decent light in all conditions plus the option to try some USB charging if required, a 3W dynamo is required?
A switch is also required so that you can charge during the day and give full output to the lights at night.
Beyond that, things get complicated.....

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meic
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Re: Hub dynamo comparison

Postby meic » 29 Oct 2018, 6:39pm

You could buy one of the lights that has a built in USB port.
Axa Luxx 70 plus or Busch and Muller Lumotec IQ2 Luxos U.
Yma o Hyd

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andrew_s
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Re: Hub dynamo comparison

Postby andrew_s » 29 Oct 2018, 9:54pm

LittleGreyCat wrote:So, just checking.
For decent light in all conditions plus the option to try some USB charging if required, a 3W dynamo is required?

If you want USB charging, you want a hub designed for power rather than low drag.

For Shimano, that's a 3N* hub or equivalent. Not anything that says 2N or 1N, or the Capreo.
For SP, it's a P* hub, not an S* hub
For SON, it's SON 28, not SONdelux/SON20.

The SONdelux and SP SD/SV hubs do give 3W, but you've got to be going faster to get there. That means that you don't get effective charging when travelling relatively slowly, such as uphill, and that can result in insufficient charging.
For lighting, lower power at low speed isn't that important, as you still get plenty of reaction time so something showing in your light.

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Re: Hub dynamo comparison

Postby LittleGreyCat » 30 Oct 2018, 1:20pm

meic wrote:You could buy one of the lights that has a built in USB port.
Axa Luxx 70 plus or Busch and Muller Lumotec IQ2 Luxos U.


Adds about an extra £100 to the lower end ones.
Muller Lumotec IQ2 Luxos U looks a lovely light but only justified if you do a lot of riding at night, such as winter commuting.
The upsell is relentless - going to have to cap my budget somewhere. :shock:

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meic
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Re: Hub dynamo comparison

Postby meic » 30 Oct 2018, 1:36pm

The AXA isnt so expensive
https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/axa-luxx-70 ... ght-642349
The light is probably comparable to a B&M costing £40
How much for a dynamo-USB gadget? They are not cheap.
Not as nice as the Luxos and only 500mA compared to 1,000mA but as you say, have to keep some control of the pennies.
Yma o Hyd

PH
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Re: Hub dynamo comparison

Postby PH » 30 Oct 2018, 3:02pm

LittleGreyCat wrote:The upsell is relentless - going to have to cap my budget somewhere. :shock:

My expensive Supernova and SON lights are 9 and 8 years old and outclassed by most of the cheaper current models. My 12 and 14 years old SON hubs are still probably as good as hubs get.
If I was looking now and deciding where the money goes, I'd choose a hub expecting it to last a lifetime and lights with the expectation that I'd probably want to replace them at some point.

pwa
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Re: Hub dynamo comparison

Postby pwa » 30 Oct 2018, 3:09pm

PH wrote:
LittleGreyCat wrote:The upsell is relentless - going to have to cap my budget somewhere. :shock:

My expensive Supernova and SON lights are 9 and 8 years old and outclassed by most of the cheaper current models. My 12 and 14 years old SON hubs are still probably as good as hubs get.
If I was looking now and deciding where the money goes, I'd choose a hub expecting it to last a lifetime and lights with the expectation that I'd probably want to replace them at some point.

That makes good sense. You can expect a SON hub to last a long time and not be significantly bettered by other brands as time passes, so spending a lot there might make sense. But the actual lamp will be bettered by something next year, and the year after, and it only makes financial sense to buy a high performance "value for money" lamp, rather than "the best money can buy", because the latter will not be the best for long.

Brucey
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Re: Hub dynamo comparison

Postby Brucey » 30 Oct 2018, 4:16pm

you can buy a shimano 3Nxx generator in a 700C wheel for ~£30 from decathlon. I would suggest that a generator hub/wheel that is x5 more expensive is not x5 as good. My experience is that provided you keep the bearings adjusted and greased, shimano hubs last a very long time indeed.
You can use such a device to see if the whole scheme works for you or not. You can sell it on if you fancy an upgrade, but in reality you can spend a small fortune and you will save a little bit of weight and you might (*) have a small amount less drag.

(*) I say 'might' because available drag data is taken on hubs that are new out of the box. Cup and cone hubs (i.e. shimano ones) need to be adjusted and lubricated properly before they are used; the bearings are invariably set too tightly. Ad hoc tests I have done suggested to me that there was ~1W less drag (lights off) from a new shimano generator once it had been set up/lubed properly.

cheers
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peterh11
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Re: Hub dynamo comparison

Postby peterh11 » 2 Nov 2018, 7:57am

In our family we have 5 utility bikes all with variants of the Shimano 3N (3W) hubs, and I also have a SON 28 on my touring bike (used for day rides mainly). All have been very reliable, some have been in daily use on short commutes for up to 10 years. The SON definitely has less resistance and looks nicer :-)

It’s pretty easy to find ready built wheels with the shimano hubs in on the internet at reasonable prices, and a couple of ours were acquired this way.

I’ll follow the same approach when replacing bikes or front wheels, as it seems to work for us. Shimano for utility and short distance daily riding around Cambridge: by the time you’ve put Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres and a 7/8 speed hub gear on and otherwise created a bombproof utility bike, low resistance is not so important. But on the lighter bike where I’ll ride all day, it is.

Peter H