Four bike choice (so far) Spa and Surly

[LittleGreyCat]

I'm getting down to a choice of 4 at Spa (so far) so looking for opinions (especially if you own one).
Touring and local rides, with load lugging and reliability well up the list.

Spa Cycles Steel Tourer https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s21p2983/SPA-CYCLES-Steel-Tourer £985
Spa Cycles Wayfarer https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s21p3866/SPA-CYCLES-Wayfarer £1090
Surly Long Haul Trucker Custom https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s21p3184/SURLY-Long-Haul-Trucker-Custom £1190
Surly Disc Trucker Custom https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s21p3814/SURLY-Disc-Trucker-Custom £1230

So there are two major questions:
(1) Is it worth the extra money for the disc brake version?
(2) How do the Spa Cycles tourers compare with Surly?

I have read on here that the Wayfarer is next generation from the Steel Tourer but I assume the LHT versions are virtually identical?

Planning now to go and look at them and sit on them and if I like one or more to test ride.

One interesting aspect is that the LHT has shifters on the bar end. I've never tried these; just the rapid fire MTB ones and the STI ones on the brake hoods. Any views?

[meic]

They are all good bikes you cant go wrong with any of those four.
All four are going to have owners on this forum, singing the praises of their particular steed.
Really it comes down to personal preference and they ever so slightly lean more towards one role than another.

I have a LHT but I think the Spas are a better bike, however the LHT is aimed at carrying slightly heavier loads and they make bigger frames for great big American riders. I'm not American but I am pretty tall and the LHT caters for that. Also I was buying a frame to take all my 26" wheels from a broken bike.
The LHT frame I bought was also quite a bit cheaper than the Spa frames at that time.
The powdercoat on the LHT frame has quite a reputation for toughness and it seems to be justified, I have no through scratches or rust three years on and the bike and I were thrown down the road once by a hit and run. I am not particular careful with my bike either.

[LinusR]

(1) Is it worth the extra money for the disc brake version?

Yes. Disc brakes obviously save the rims from wearing out and having to rebuild the wheel. Good disc brakes have better stopping power. I use TRP Spyre (same as the Spa and Surly) and they are very good (although no better than BB7s which are also very good). Having used caliper, cantilever, v-brake and centre pull rim brakes over the years, in my view discs are significantly better.

[meic]

A view not universally shared.
I took my BB7 off and replaced it with a cheap cantilever rim brake.
I gave it a chance and decided the cons outweighed the pros.

[landsurfer]

After 40 years of Cycling, touring, TT (20 years before i realised it was time to stop !) . adventures on road and off road, and i can honestly say that my SPA Steel Touring is the best bike i have ever owned .... as well as the steel framed Jamis of course .......

[scottg]

The Surly is designed to be loaded up, unloaded with Marathons,
it is a rolling bridge abutment.

I'd suggest riding both, the Spa and Surly have really different front end
geometry and BB drop, they won't feel the same.
Put loaded panniers on them and ride up a nice 1 in 5, then down
at 40mph with a good hard curve.

[slowster]

Bear in mind that although Spa advertise these bikes with a particular suggested build, they can doubtless vary the component choices to meet your requirements. So focus first of all and most of all on how the bikes feel/ride, rather than the variations in components between the bikes. Once you've decided which bike you like most, you can then consider any changes you might want from the standard build.

Based on comments on this forum by people far more knowledgeable than me extolling the superiority of Shimano's LX hubs for rim brakes and XT M756 hubs for disc brakes, choosing those hubs would be one of the variations I would make to the standard builds, which all use Deore hubs (it's not that the Deore hubs are not good, but rather that the LX and XT M756 hubs are probably the best hubs you can get for a touring bike, i.e. better than Shimano's more expensive hubs and than the similarly more expensive hubs of other manufacturers).

Others have already commented on one of your other threads that they prefer the BB7 disc brake over the TRP Spyre listed in the standard builds, and I too would specify the BB7. The Wayfarer can be built with either rim brakes or disc brakes.

Another change I think you would want based on your previous threads is smaller chainrings than the standard build choice of 48/38/28, e.g. 44/34/24 or 46/34/24.

One thing to bear in mind if you specify a tyre size significantly smaller than the bike has clearance for, is whether you might want the option of fitting wider tyres later. If so, ask Spa to fit wider mudguards and ensure that they have enough clearance under the guards for the wider and taller tyre. The standard build Wayfarer comes with 32mm tyres, and the usual mudguard width for that tyre size is 45mm. If you later decided you wanted to try 47mm tyres, you would probably also have to replace the 45mm mudguards. (But if it were me I would specify 47mm tyres from the outset, knowing then that I would have the maximum cushioning possible for the bike and the option of trying narrower tyres later without any problem with the mudguard clearance).

[PH]

I'd be inclined towards the Spas unless you're exceptionally heavy or intending to carry large loads, it may just be a perception but the LHT I had for a while was a beast of burden and although I don't have a Spa Tourer CJ in his review compared it to the Hewitt I do have (Something along the lines of a few minor tweaks in the right direction) which IMO rides much nicer unladen and is still perfectly fine with my camping load.
That just leaves the question of brakes - if you read all the opinion it'll make your head spin and you'll probably be no nearer an answer.
I see the pros and cons as:
The ease of servicing rim brakes, though a lot of that will be familiarity
The lack of rim wear with disks, you can decide for yourself how big an issue you think that is
Better wet weather disk braking - Have you have ever felt your rim brakes were not good enough?
How a necessarily stiffer disk fork effects the ride quality - That for me is the big one, there's no advantage either way I'd compromise ride quality for, but opinion is divided on whether you'd actually notice on a touring bike with typical touring tyres - there's an easy way for you to find out, ride them both back to back, with the same tyres...

[LittleGreyCat]

Thank you all so far.

Please keep the quality information flowing.

[meic]

One interesting aspect is that the LHT has shifters on the bar end.

It does in the picture but in the specifications it says Sora 9spd STI's.

I am having some difficulty seeing why the LHT is more expensive than the Spa.
Especially as the Spa comes with mudguards and Tubus rack. If the prices were reversed I might have difficulty choosing between them. If the prices were the same I would take the Spa except for the fact that I dont believe that they are actually big enough for me.

[reohn2]

Wayfarer.
Discs are definitely worth the extra.

[iandusud]

I can't comment on either bike, and think that PH has summed up the pros and cons of disc brakes very well. However no one has yet commented on bar-end gear levers. I have three road bikes and a tandem. One has Shimano Ultegra 10 speed STI, another Shimano Tiagra 10 speed STI, another SRAM Force 22 brake/gear levers and one Suntour indexzd bar-end levers. They are all good. Of the three combined brake/gear lever set ups the SRAM is my favourite, having a more positive feel. Next comes the Tiagra which have a lighter and more positive feel than the Ultegra (the Tiagra uses a longer cable pull than Ultegra). As for bar ends, I really like them. They fall to hand really nicely when riding on the tops or the hoods on drop bars. The action is very positive and you can change several gears at once. I have also fitted Shimano Ultegra bar-ends on my wife's bike and they are just as nice to use, if not better than my old Suntour ones. Add to that their relative simplicity compared to combined controls and their lack of vulnerability in the event of a crash, I wouldn't hesitate in specifying them on a new build, particularly a touring set up.

Cheers, Ian

[Bez]

For context, I've owned both of the Surlys, but neither of the Spas, and I should add that I'm 6'5"/90kg:

Personally I would go for discs every time. For me, the reasons are: (1) I have never in my life found any cantis—and I have tried many over nearly 30 years—which would reliably never squeal, whereas I have never had squealing BB7s/Spyres in the 17 years I've used them; (2) disc brakes don't cover the bike and luggage in a filthy aluminium/rubber paste; (3) tyre clearance is improved, as is ease of fitting if you're using the largest tyres you can; (4) they work markedly better in the wet; (5) rims don't get worn out. I don't find the advantages of rim brakes to be worthwhile, especially on a tourer: (1) the weight difference is insignificant; (2) any ride difference in the fork is also insignificant.

I would dismiss comments about the Surlys being heavy lumps. They're not light, sure, but I've done multiple rides of well over 200km on my Disc Trucker without a burning desire to be on a lighter bike, and the person who I sold the LHT to went and did the Etape du Tour on it. The build quality is good and the paint is robust: they are pretty bombproof frames. The stickers pretty much fall off as soon as you look at them, but you can't have everything.

If I had to keep just one bike, there's a good chance it would be my Disc Trucker, because it just about does everything: shopping, touring, off-roading, road riding, commuting, whatever.

The Spa looks very similar: even the tyre clearance looks about the same on paper (the largest I've had in the Disc Trucker are nominally 50mm tyres (here's a picture of it with 28x2 Supremes), but clearance is close and you have to choose guards carefully; I've tried a few, including the SKS that Spa use, and Bluemels 53s give the most clearance).

I'd have no trouble choosing, because the largest Spa is way too small for me (and the head angle is too slack for my liking) but other than that I suspect they will both serve equally well if they fit your geometry preferences. There's no doubting that Surly frames have risen in price over the past few years and the Spa looks better value on paper. However you may also want to consider buying a frame and doing your own build: I did that with mine (patiently picking up parts at the best prices I could find on eBay and retail sites) and although it was four years ago I ended up with a much better build than the one Spa list, for a lot less money.

[pwa]

Go and try them. Pick the one you like.

[iandriver]

Only thing I'd add is do you intend to fly with the bike? I personally think discs, unless in a hard case, are best removed during flight.

Not insurmountable, but a a pain if you are planning to do a lot of it.