What colour for my tourer upgrade & other bits

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PSAS
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Joined: 27 Jun 2018, 1:59pm

What colour for my tourer upgrade & other bits

Postby PSAS » 13 Nov 2018, 9:39pm

I have a 1994 Dawes Horizon tourer, This had had a little bit spent on it in the last year or so and I have grown quite fond of the thing.
Now it has to have it's top bar replaced and consequently a respray.
As I have to strip the bike down to the frame this might be a time to do a few upgrades?
I am thinking about going for 'better' tubing for the top tube and new forks if that is possible/sensible. Currently Reynolds 501.
Change from cantilever brakes to V brakes? I and my LBS are struggling to get good performance out of the cantilevers.
Any other thoughts?
And most important of all what colour should I go for. Stay with original purple (sometimes described as very 1970s) feels kinda right but thinking of British Racing Green enamel finish.
Picture of ironclad here: https://PSASSASP.de.quickconnect.to/mo/ ... /CPSEWh5Zg


I am not interested in knowing that I might be better off buying another bike. Grateful for your thoughts,

hayers
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Re: What colour for my tourer upgrade & other bits

Postby hayers » 14 Nov 2018, 12:35pm

Green definitely! Went for brg with white lining and head tube on my tourer - looķs great (I think) - understated rather than OTT.

Not sure you can get 501 now so change is probably necessary - I would go with whatever the repairer suggests, gut feel is that the top tube is relatively insignificant in determining feel of the bike, but others on here more knowledgeable.

JakobW
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Location: The glorious West Midlands

Re: What colour for my tourer upgrade & other bits

Postby JakobW » 14 Nov 2018, 7:38pm

IIRC, the major contribution the top tube can make to frame stiffness is OS vs non-OS tubing, and obviously you can't really easily change that; for a tourer the thinner walls of 'better' tubing are of dubious value anyway, as it makes them more susceptible to dents. IMO BRG works very well for a tourer - mine is BRG with a cream head tube and barber's pole. V-brakes will need levers with a suitable cable pull, which rules out STIs; older canti boss spacing is also different from modern, but I don't know which your Dawes will have.

Brucey
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Re: What colour for my tourer upgrade & other bits

Postby Brucey » 14 Nov 2018, 7:53pm

Image

if you are having a new top tube then you can ditch the original cable routing; it just causes the tube to rust out from the inside. On a large sized touring frameset a thicker-walled tube here will improve the stiffness of the frame somewhat; a lightweight one won't do that.

The reason your cantis are not working is that

a) you have paired them with modern brake levers/STIs. These have a low MA and don't play well with many cantis. Maybe they will work with Velo Orange cantis, or Mini-Vs.

b) to get maximum power the brake arms need to be set as wide apart as you can sensibly manage (easy to change with post-mount brakes) and

c) the straddle cables are set way too high.

It is easy and cheap to set the brake arms wider and the straddle cables much lower (use conventional yokes and straddles, not the M-system ones you have at present) and you might find the brakes work well enough this way. But fundamentally the brake levers are the wrong sort for cantis.

cheers
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ebor62
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Joined: 27 Apr 2017, 7:39pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: What colour for my tourer upgrade & other bits

Postby ebor62 » 14 Nov 2018, 9:00pm

I can understand your attachment to your Dawes Horizon, as I have two galaxys and they are my go to bikes, despite having carbon, aluminium and hand built steel. They take what ever I throw at them in terms of miles, terrain, weather and luggage with great reliability and comfort. Both mine are green and I get lots of compliments. The only thing I haven't been completely happy with is the Canti brakes but Brucey has, as always covered it all. As suggested go with the advice of the repairer. The cost of the tubing is negligible, compared with the labour of repair and respray. Dawes used to sell, just the framesets. I wish they still did as my daily commute took me to work on a pier where in winter the uncovered bike rack used to get lashed by sea spray. Heart tells me get resprays, head tells me get a new bike with disk brakes. Not sure yet, which is going to win.

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willcee
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Re: What colour for my tourer upgrade & other bits

Postby willcee » 14 Nov 2018, 9:29pm

I always thought that decent tourers never had great paint options, eg Randonneurs 531st had a dark grey with a bland copper colour later on, Raleigh improved with 708 models red and blue ims.. Dawes very conservative usually and your Purple shade is one I've not yet witnessed, i have rebuild 3 Randos, one new framed 708 in a BMW mini series 1 mid steel blue with a Honda Fireblade red headstock, both 531 others in a leaf green shade with white. / creamy headstocks.. and they always had admirers..i would suggest a nice French racing blue with either steel grey head and seat tube or alternatively cream shades for those bits.. be proud of what you have .. will

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Vantage
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Re: What colour for my tourer upgrade & other bits

Postby Vantage » 14 Nov 2018, 10:23pm

First off, I went with the metallic british racing green paint option that was offered on my frame&forks when I bought them. The bike never fails to get admiring glances and compliments from people. It's gorgeous.
I had the same issues you have with your cantis and eventually ditched them and the STI's in order to run full size V brakes.
Lowering the straddle cable hanger to set the arms wide will help enormously but you face the same nightmare I had...the dynamo light bracket. It just gets in the way. If the straddle cable is routed over it you lose power and if its routed under the bracket, pulling the brakes inevitably causes the hanger to hit the bracket = no brakes.
So you fit V brakes. But they don't like being pulled by STI Levers.
One way around this is to use Problem Solvers Travel Agents. These increase the cable pull. I tried them and they worked...sort of.
You still end up with very tight clearances between pad and rim. You lose some V brake power due to the cable pull changing and even more is lost through increased friction. You end up with badly kinked brake cables due to them being wrapped around a pulley and that increases the chances of cable breakage. The pulley (in my case) frequently hit the light bracket which again = no brakes.
I gave up, fitted Dia-Compe 287V V brake levers, Alivio V brakes and Sun Race 9 speed downtube shifters. That was an upgrade from 8 speed.
I didn't get along too well with the shifters being downtube mounted so invested in some Kelly's Take Off's.
Granted my gear shifts aren't as quick as they were when I had STI's, but it's a tourer, not a racer. And I've now got brakes that I know will stop with little effort.
I hope this helps.
Bill


“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx
It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.

Brucey
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Re: What colour for my tourer upgrade & other bits

Postby Brucey » 14 Nov 2018, 11:24pm

if the dynamo light bracket fouls the brake cable then a different bracket can cure that.

This page

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/front-light-brackets/?page=4

has lots of which I quite like the look of this one

Image

which (if inverted, and used with a longer bolt/nylock etc) should work on a touring bike with cantilever brakes and a low straddle.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jamesh
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Re: What colour for my tourer upgrade & other bits

Postby Jamesh » 14 Nov 2018, 11:34pm

Hi I have a British eagle frame I'm bringing back to life with s £9 tin of Wilko finest exterior Oxford blue paint!

You could get it painted by a bike shop Ellis Brigg quoted me £150.

Or powder coated £50 - 75 ish.

As to top tube the material goes not matter. What does matter is that it's double butted and that the thickness is commensurate with the type of riding you intend doing and the thickness of the rest of the bike. Putting 531c on a 531st frame is unwise.

525 double butted should be just fine.
You are going to be limited by the lug sizes.
725 will only be lighter if made thinner and in my experience top tubes are often dented, which thinner 725 is more likely to do.

Cheers James

peetee
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Re: What colour for my tourer upgrade & other bits

Postby peetee » 15 Nov 2018, 12:16am

I agree with Brucey in that a thicker guage tubing would be beneficial and worth the weight penalty. A heavy guage or oversize main frame noticeably improves torsional rigidity and stability on a laden bike.
As for colour, burgundy main with cream head tube and seat tube panel with contrasting decals on seat and down tube would look very classy.
Current status report:
Latter side of fifty and feeling less than nifty.
Too many bikes on pegs and too few miles in the legs.

David9694
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Re: What colour for my tourer upgrade & other bits

Postby David9694 » 15 Nov 2018, 10:52pm

I’m in position myself to comment criticise anyone for doing uneconomic things with old Reynolds frames. I’ve played around with several over the past year, getting them off EBay, doing a rattle-can respray and getting decals. But really, by the time you’ve paid for this replacement top tube and the respray, you could end up with a much nicer Reynolds 531 or new alu frame than you’ve currently got/ever will get from repairing this one.

Takes one to know one, as they say.

drossall
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Re: What colour for my tourer upgrade & other bits

Postby drossall » 15 Nov 2018, 11:27pm

Yebbut it wouldn't be my frame. I've had various uneconomic resprays and minor repairs done. Never regretted them. (Except the one where the forks broke after being straightened, but even then I managed to get some more forks and keep the frame going.)

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foxyrider
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Re: What colour for my tourer upgrade & other bits

Postby foxyrider » 16 Nov 2018, 8:48am

drossall wrote:Yebbut it wouldn't be my frame. I've had various uneconomic resprays and minor repairs done. Never regretted them. (Except the one where the forks broke after being straightened, but even then I managed to get some more forks and keep the frame going.)


Personally I wouldn't waste the money on a repair to a 501 frame - it's gas pipe and totally uneconomic. By the time you've paid out for the respray as well you are a good way to a new frame which could be built to the same dimensions in better materials. But that's me, we can get very attached to our steeds and the desire to keep a favourite steed going can be strong.
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

peetee
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Re: What colour for my tourer upgrade & other bits

Postby peetee » 16 Nov 2018, 9:43am

foxyrider wrote:501 frame - it's gas pipe

Totally disagree. 501 is seamless cro-moly so is as good as most high end steel offerings from the likes of Specialized, Giant and Surly. It was no shining star in Reynolds range but not rubbish by any means. Sure there have been a lot of advances in steel in the last 20 years or so but, even recently lots of quality frames were labelled up as seamless Cro moly. If there is a difference then the consumer is largely ignorant of the fact and, therefore, willing to pay for 'gas pipe' with a trendy name.
Last edited by peetee on 16 Nov 2018, 12:43pm, edited 1 time in total.
Current status report:
Latter side of fifty and feeling less than nifty.
Too many bikes on pegs and too few miles in the legs.

reohn2
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Re: What colour for my tourer upgrade & other bits

Postby reohn2 » 16 Nov 2018, 10:17am

TBH,I wouldn't bother going to the trouble of such frame and fork repairs and consequent respray the OP is thinking of on such an old frameset.
Much better to buy a nwpews and much better frameset for less than or not much more than the cost of the repairs/respray,a new frame would also ride better too.

TBH I never understand the attachment people have to machinery,I reserve such feelings for people and perhaps pets to a lesser extent but never machines.
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