Road 1X - useful or just a fad?

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Brucey
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Re: Road 1X - useful or just a fad?

Postby Brucey » 21 Dec 2018, 11:11pm

Oceanic wrote:
Brucey wrote:I think it is as quick or quicker to dump the chain onto the small ring than it is to make multiple downshifts at the rear. Kinder on the chain too.

cheers


That's assuming that you haven't been forced in to the position of trying to change down while grinding up hill in too big a gear.


you only need to back off for about 1/4 of a turn of the pedals to make the downshift. This can be timed to occur when you are not able to push hard on the pedals anyway.

cheers
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reohn2
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Re: Road 1X - useful or just a fad?

Postby reohn2 » 22 Dec 2018, 12:37am

landsurfer wrote:All of my bikes .. ok all 2 of them ... Spa and Jamis .... SPA 34 tooth single chainset ... 12 - 40, 9 speed cassette .... LEJOG and lots more and Pan Celtic 2019 beckons ...

But you did change the front chainring for a smaller one when on LeJog,no?
Last edited by reohn2 on 22 Dec 2018, 12:42am, edited 1 time in total.
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reohn2
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Re: Road 1X - useful or just a fad?

Postby reohn2 » 22 Dec 2018, 12:41am

Oceanic wrote:
Brucey wrote:I think it is as quick or quicker to dump the chain onto the small ring than it is to make multiple downshifts at the rear. Kinder on the chain too.

cheers


That's assuming that you haven't been forced in to the position of trying to change down while grinding up hill in too big a gear.

That's all to do with riding the the bike thoughtfully,the only time I've ever been caught out unable to drop onto the inner ring is on the tandem going verrryyy slowly with a LOT more torque going through the drivetrain than you'll ever get on a solo.
Last edited by reohn2 on 22 Dec 2018, 12:47am, edited 1 time in total.
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reohn2
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Re: Road 1X - useful or just a fad?

Postby reohn2 » 22 Dec 2018, 12:45am

I simply donnot get this simplicity claim :? .
You have two or three sets of 8/9/10 on the rear one or two changes on the front gives you a/the lower set of ratios.
What's so hard about that? :?
A bit of initial thinkology is all it takes which after a very short while it becomes second nature.Along with a 2 or 3x system comes a wider range of gearing and no yawning gaps between ratios.
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mattsccm
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Re: Road 1X - useful or just a fad?

Postby mattsccm » 22 Dec 2018, 6:49am

Something refered to up thread. If an emergency down change is needed, its so much easier to bang down a chain ring that force your wat up a few sprockets at the back. Nasty entanglements avoided as well.

landsurfer
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Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm

Re: Road 1X - useful or just a fad?

Postby landsurfer » 22 Dec 2018, 8:14am

reohn2 wrote:
landsurfer wrote:All of my bikes .. ok all 2 of them ... Spa and Jamis .... SPA 34 tooth single chainset ... 12 - 40, 9 speed cassette .... LEJOG and lots more and Pan Celtic 2019 beckons ...

But you did change the front chainring for a smaller one when on LeJog,no?


Your right ... i used a 26 tooth front for the LEJOG. I had a 34 fitted outside of the 26, the reasoning was that that on the flatter sections, Cheshire plain etc I would swap over for the day but in reality I rode in the 26 all the time and for a long period after as well. I kept up with the group, all my knee pain disappeared, and i freewheeled a lot ... :) Road x 1, highly recommended.
Be More Mike.
The Road Goes On Forever

pwa
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Re: Road 1X - useful or just a fad?

Postby pwa » 22 Dec 2018, 9:46am

Some people create gear tables for their multi chain ring bikes and work out the best path through the options. I have never done that. I don't know how I get from the lowest to the highest gear, and I get along just fine not knowing. So for me having three chain rings is easy and simple.

I can use the middle ring with all nine sprockets if I want to, though I tend to use it only with the central seven. The smallest ring will work fine with about six sprockets, as will the largest. When the gradient is changing and I think I may be going to one extreme or the other on the cassette I consider a change of ring, then just stick with that ring for as long as possible. Very often on rolling terrain I find myself just staying on the middle ring (36 on my tourer) for mile after mile, so using it as a 1x system. But as using the three rings is so relaxed and easy I would not want to give up the option of a ring change when the gradient changes significantly.

I do use bar end levers with non-indexed front shifting so my front mech can be trimmed perfectly and easily for any sprocket, which I think makes front changing much easier than with STI. And I have used both.

reohn2
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Re: Road 1X - useful or just a fad?

Postby reohn2 » 22 Dec 2018, 10:24am

landsurfer wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
landsurfer wrote:All of my bikes .. ok all 2 of them ... Spa and Jamis .... SPA 34 tooth single chainset ... 12 - 40, 9 speed cassette .... LEJOG and lots more and Pan Celtic 2019 beckons ...

But you did change the front chainring for a smaller one when on LeJog,no?


Your right ... i used a 26 tooth front for the LEJOG. I had a 34 fitted outside of the 26, the reasoning was that that on the flatter sections, Cheshire plain etc I would swap over for the day but in reality I rode in the 26 all the time and for a long period after as well. I kept up with the group, all my knee pain disappeared, and i freewheeled a lot ... :) Road x 1, highly recommended.

A couple of questions:-
Is the 9sp 12-40 cassette a custom one?

How do you find the gaps in ratios in the most used cruising gears?
When cruising above say 14mph anything more than a two tooth jump between ratios.To try to explain,I find hard on my(quite narrow)optimum cadence range which is around 90rpm though I can spin out a gear to maybe 120rpm,I struggle to push over a gear lower than say 60rpm if it needs a lot of power so if I've max'd out a gear at say 18 to 20mph @ 100rpm if the next cog up drops my cadence to say 80rpm I wouldn't be comfortable turning it over,whereas if the near cog up is 90rpm I can get on top of it.
I find the closer ratios at the high end very useful in the same way I find the wide ratios at the lower end equally as useful.

EDIT:- just put the 26 ×12-40(10sp no 9sp standard cassette) through a gear calc and got 18 to 59inch(on 700x32mm tyre),swapping the c/ring for a 36t gives 24.5 to 82inch.the first set is way to low for me and the second set would be a useful range if it weren't for the yawning gaps in the most used gears.
Obviously the 1x works for you but the gaps would cause problems for me and I suspect anyone else who's been used to a 2 or 3 x drivetrain.
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Cugel
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Re: Road 1X - useful or just a fad?

Postby Cugel » 22 Dec 2018, 11:22am

pwa wrote:Some people create gear tables for their multi chain ring bikes and work out the best path through the options. I have never done that. I don't know how I get from the lowest to the highest gear, and I get along just fine not knowing. So for me having three chain rings is easy and simple.

I can use the middle ring with all nine sprockets if I want to, though I tend to use it only with the central seven. The smallest ring will work fine with about six sprockets, as will the largest. When the gradient is changing and I think I may be going to one extreme or the other on the cassette I consider a change of ring, then just stick with that ring for as long as possible. Very often on rolling terrain I find myself just staying on the middle ring (36 on my tourer) for mile after mile, so using it as a 1x system. But as using the three rings is so relaxed and easy I would not want to give up the option of a ring change when the gradient changes significantly.

I do use bar end levers with non-indexed front shifting so my front mech can be trimmed perfectly and easily for any sprocket, which I think makes front changing much easier than with STI. And I have used both.


That's my experience too. Why give up the two extra sets of low/high ratios for use in very hilly/fast terrain respectively? Even though one is often single-ringing most of the time in the middle ring, those two sets of low/high ratios are very useful in highly variable terrain. And the sprockets can be close-ratio. The Surfer has got used to the gaps; I'd rather not.

Once I spent winters on the ultimate single ring which also had a single sprocket, aka fixed-wheel winter bike. It did grow vast quads straining up hills at 39rpm. It did teach me to spin at up to 120rpm without bouncing when going down them. Nevertheless, these were just learning periods and now I use gears to better-get the benefit of the vast quads and spinning ability.

On the summer bike I now have an STI lever working well with the front triple changer (Ultgera 6703 cage with a Dura-Ace triple 30-39-52). Once set up carefully it works perfectly for all changes and trimming. It does take quite a bit of tweeking and trying to get it just right but it's stayed just-right for months with only a teeny twiddle of the barrel adjuster to compensate for the stretch of the new cable.

This triple works with a Frankenstein 13-30 or 15-36 10-speed cassette. The higher gears have 1-toof jumps, which means no vast change in cadence between gears when at speed (which is when even a slight change in velocity can require vastly more or less power). I use all the sprockets - no redundant 11,12 etc.. I put the wheel and sprocket on suitable for either super-hills (15-36) or flatter-faster (13-30). The 39 ring works well with all 10 sprockets - no graunch or bad chainline in the extremes (although the bike does have long chainstays, which helps a lot). I'm in the 39 a lot of the time (at 10-20mph, which covers most riding).

1X gearing will suit some. Many will adapt to the big gaps between ratios. After all, if we can go through winter with just a single-gear fixed wheel .......

But personally I've come to find both close ratios and very low gears the best for my style of cycling. What is amusing is that many who claimed they "needed" 52X11 are now "very happy" with a top gear of 40X11. The power of advertising, fashion and the herd mentality, eh!?

Cugel

Dave W
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Re: Road 1X - useful or just a fad?

Postby Dave W » 22 Dec 2018, 2:00pm

I just get on a bike and ride it ........ isn’t that what you’re supposed to do?

reohn2
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Re: Road 1X - useful or just a fad?

Postby reohn2 » 22 Dec 2018, 3:13pm

Dave W wrote:I just get on a bike and ride it ........ isn’t that what you’re supposed to do?

That'll be right,but it's nice to have a wide enough geared drivetrain to suit the terrain one rides on,with suitable increments inbetween for any given rider.Otherwise why have so many different cassettes from close to wide ratios to choose from.

It's a bit goldielocks-alike,the porridge can be too hot,too cold or just right otherwise one porridge would suit all,whereas my porridge isn't your porridge.It's all porridge just different types :)
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Dave W
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Re: Road 1X - useful or just a fad?

Postby Dave W » 22 Dec 2018, 3:34pm

Good point, just can’t understand why people aren’t allowed to get on with their own porridge on here. Doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with their porridge some just like a dollop of syrup whilst others like salt :cry:

reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Road 1X - useful or just a fad?

Postby reohn2 » 22 Dec 2018, 4:04pm

Dave W wrote:Good point, just can’t understand why people aren’t allowed to get on with their own porridge on here. Doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with their porridge some just like a dollop of syrup whilst others like salt :cry:

There's nothing wrong with the different porridige types and people are 'allowed' to eat wheatever porridge they like,but it's a forum and people discuss the pros and cons of any particular porridge,that way they have a better perspective of porridge.

FWIW,I googled the Cannondale Slate,it runs a 44 x 11-42 cass 1x11,on 650b x 42 tyres.It does have some nice close ratios at the high end but the 44t chainring would need reducing to a 34 or 36t to get a low enough bottom end to be the right porridge for me,YVMV and it's perfectly OK to have that variance.
But then I know from experience riding on gravel(the bike's intended purpose and what I ride a lot myself)has high wear rate on drivetrains,that along with constantly cross chainring of a 1x with an ultra narrow chain shortens the drivetrain further and 11sp cassettes and chains don't come cheap,in fact they're bl@@dy expensive.
That may not be of any concern to you,but with a good quality 9sp chain and cassette coming in at less than £30,and 2 chainrings about every 20k+ miles coming in at less than £30 it's a cheap life plus with a 2x9 I get exactly what porridge I want a lot cheaper than 1x11 porridge :wink:
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keyboardmonkey
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Re: Road 1X - useful or just a fad?

Postby keyboardmonkey » 22 Dec 2018, 4:16pm

No porridge for me, thank you. It’s Weetabix all the way: and three of ‘em - none of this one’s enough stuff!

reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Road 1X - useful or just a fad?

Postby reohn2 » 22 Dec 2018, 4:23pm

keyboardmonkey wrote:No porridge for me, thank you. It’s Weetabix all the way: and three of ‘em - none of this one’s enough stuff!

Are those three in a cocoa tin :wink:
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