N+1: Opportunity of a Lifetime

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
roubaixtuesday
Posts: 1899
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: N+1: Opportunity of a Lifetime

Postby roubaixtuesday » 30 Nov 2018, 2:17pm

slowster,

I agree, mudguards are a key point. I'm not a fair weather rider (indeed, I commute all through winter), but I have another bike with guards which I ride when expecting to get wet. I did think about it for this machine, but I reckon in reality, I'd never fit them. I also agree that it's nice to see other peoples preferences and how they differ. I wouldn't dream of going back to downtube shifters personally!

- What is the bike going to be used for? You say a lightweight day bike, but you need to be more detailed than that. For example, if you are going to be going out for short 25 mile blasts, then your requirements are potentially going to be somewhat different from a bike on which you want to be able to go out and do a fastish 100 mile ride in country lanes


Typically I might do 2-3 centuries a year, always very hilly, and probably do at least one 50 mileish ride every week, as well as commuting. I currently run 50/34 11-28 and have never wanted for more gears. Lower gears for me are only required with luggage, so I'm not interested in the triple option. I really like compact double gearing. I know others don't, but it works perfectly for me.

I guess in my dotage I might progress to lower gears; ultegra 11 speed allows a 34t which is pretty low, and there's always the option to change to an Alpine double when I get really decrepit I think.

Canuk
Posts: 1105
Joined: 4 Oct 2016, 11:43pm

Re: N+1: Opportunity of a Lifetime

Postby Canuk » 30 Nov 2018, 2:20pm

Electronic gearing is probably going to be rolled out to the lower end groups, so it'll likely be ubiquitous in the next year or two. Personally I prefer mechanical but it is starting to look a little 'long in the tooth'.

If I was speccing a once in a lifetime build I would definitely opt for electronic. And my weapon of choice would be Sram Etap.

roubaixtuesday
Posts: 1899
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: N+1: Opportunity of a Lifetime

Postby roubaixtuesday » 30 Nov 2018, 2:21pm

Hope roubaix does not mind the thread drift, maybe it could be split off


I'm very chilled - nothing could break my Zen given that I'm off to order my new bike tomorrow :D

But perhaps if people genuinely want to discuss the history of electronic shifting, they might enjoy it on their own thread? I'll leave it up to them to set up a thread and ask mods to shift posts if they do.

In the meantime... what's the best paint job you've ever seen on a bike?

May favourite is our tandem, natch:

toucan_1.JPG

Canuk
Posts: 1105
Joined: 4 Oct 2016, 11:43pm

Re: N+1: Opportunity of a Lifetime

Postby Canuk » 30 Nov 2018, 2:43pm

This is one of my favourite Pearl mica Italian decor finishes. I was lucky enough to buy it new from the frame builder Banino.
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IMG_20181130_38240.jpg
IMG_20181130_48373.jpg

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cycleruk
Posts: 5130
Joined: 17 Jan 2009, 9:30pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: N+1: Opportunity of a Lifetime

Postby cycleruk » 30 Nov 2018, 2:50pm

The only bike I had made for me. Coloured basically with homage to my club colours of gold, light blue and dark blue.
I decided on a mid blue but thought that when blended into the yellow would possibly look green so had the white in-between. Our club kit did have some white on it at the time.
Donohue C (Large).jpg

Colour is one of the hardest choices to make. :roll:
Happiness is a new bike. :D
There's no such thing as a tailwind.
It's either a headwind, or you're going well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81gfs4sd76E

Canuk
Posts: 1105
Joined: 4 Oct 2016, 11:43pm

Re: N+1: Opportunity of a Lifetime

Postby Canuk » 30 Nov 2018, 3:09pm

cycleruk wrote:The only bike I had made for me. Coloured basically with homage to my club colours of gold, light blue and dark blue.
I decided on a mid blue but thought that when blended into the yellow would possibly look green so had the white in-between. Our club kit did have some white on it at the time.
Donohue C (Large).jpg
Colour is one of the hardest choices to make. :roll:
Happiness is a new bike. :D


That is a very nice looking bicycle. In my defence I would say than (male) purchasers of bicycles are by far the most fashion conscious of any. From bitter experience :wink:

slowster
Posts: 730
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: N+1: Opportunity of a Lifetime

Postby slowster » 30 Nov 2018, 3:50pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:I agree, mudguards are a key point
[...]
I guess in my dotage I might progress to lower gears; ultegra 11 speed allows a 34t which is pretty low, and there's always the option to change to an Alpine double when I get really decrepit I think.

It sounds like you have a pretty clear idea what works for you and what you want, and certainly a modern compact double and no mudguards will make choices more straightforward and give the greatest choice of groupsets/components.

The one thing I would still suggest you consider is 135mm rear OLN. It would mean not being able to use the current crop of standard 130mm road hubs and factory wheelsets, but if you know that you want handbuilt wheels with hubs that are available in 135mm OLN, as offered by Royce, Phil Wood, (I presume) Hope, along with Shimano's LX trekking range hubs, then that would give you a stronger rear wheel. I chose this option on one of my bikes, and the slight resulting change in chainline has not been noticeable to me.

Whatever you decide, enjoy your day out tomorrow, take your time and don't be afraid to explore all your options with Swallow.

Canuk
Posts: 1105
Joined: 4 Oct 2016, 11:43pm

Re: N+1: Opportunity of a Lifetime

Postby Canuk » 30 Nov 2018, 3:58pm

+1 put your money into something that makes you happy and will continue to do so.

Its easy to get carried away with other people's suggestions but at the end of the day it has to please you, and nobody else but you. Ultimately its your choice and you pays your money...

Brucey
Posts: 34269
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: N+1: Opportunity of a Lifetime

Postby Brucey » 30 Nov 2018, 4:03pm

slowster wrote:....Whatever you decide, enjoy your day out tomorrow, take your time and don't be afraid to explore all your options with Swallow.


too right.

Royce hubs are purty

Image

but then so are Hope...

Image
RS4 rear hub

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pneumant
Posts: 130
Joined: 7 Oct 2010, 8:25pm

Re: N+1: Opportunity of a Lifetime

Postby Pneumant » 30 Nov 2018, 4:33pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:
Hope roubaix does not mind the thread drift, maybe it could be split off


I'm very chilled - nothing could break my Zen given that I'm off to order my new bike tomorrow :D

But perhaps if people genuinely want to discuss the history of electronic shifting, they might enjoy it on their own thread? I'll leave it up to them to set up a thread and ask mods to shift posts if they do.

In the meantime... what's the best paint job you've ever seen on a bike?

May favourite is our tandem, natch:

toucan_1.JPG


Pete Bird is a great bloke and his shop in Coalport is superb. You'll see what I mean from the bicycle themed adornments outside the shop to the proper bike shop feel inside. Pete is very knowledgeable with at least 30+-years experience in the industry. You should spec whatever you want to and look forward to the magic of a new bike. The youth hostel next door has an excellent cafe too! Enjoy tomorrow.

brynpoeth
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Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: N+1: Opportunity of a Lifetime

Postby brynpoeth » 30 Nov 2018, 5:42pm

How appropriate, the industrial revolution started nearby in Ironbridge
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life

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Cugel
Posts: 2060
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: N+1: Opportunity of a Lifetime

Postby Cugel » 30 Nov 2018, 5:49pm

Canuk wrote:Electronic gearing is probably going to be rolled out to the lower end groups, so it'll likely be ubiquitous in the next year or two. Personally I prefer mechanical but it is starting to look a little 'long in the tooth'.

If I was speccing a once in a lifetime build I would definitely opt for electronic. And my weapon of choice would be Sram Etap.


If you are choosing a weapon, a bike is a rather clumsy thing. I suppose you could swing it at your enemies but they may posses super efficient cudgels or even bows & arrers, which can be applied from a distance. But perhaps you intend the electronic gear thingy to be used to electrocute folk somehow?

It may help if you "slam" something of the gubbins, as when this breaks it a sharp edge may result somewhere. I believe it is also possible to "pull the trigger" on a bike, although I have never found one to pull myself, despite looking very hard. Not do I understand what happens if such a trigger is pulled. Perhaps it shoots out chainwheel teeth like a machine gun; or klies sprockets like a ninja?

Personally I like to ride a bike. It is also quite pleasant to dream up an ideal specification and then have it implemented. I would never have a pistol on mine, though; and definitely not a cannon. not even on a Cannondale. Heavy on the hills and also the possibility that you might shoot yourself in the thrusting muscle when wagging the bike about in a honk.

Cugel probably a lily-livered pacifist cyclist laddy.

thelawnet
Posts: 2092
Joined: 27 Aug 2010, 12:56am

Re: N+1: Opportunity of a Lifetime

Postby thelawnet » 30 Nov 2018, 6:15pm

Canuk wrote:Electronic gearing is probably going to be rolled out to the lower end groups, so it'll likely be ubiquitous in the next year or two. Personally I prefer mechanical but it is starting to look a little 'long in the tooth'.


I think the electronic bits are quite expensive.

I had a look at groupset retail costs

Dura-Ace R9100 11sp mechanical £1000
Ultegra R8000 11sp mechanical £550
105 R7000 11sp mechanical £410 or 6700 (old) 11sp mechanical £320
Tiagra 4700 10sp mechanical £300
Sora R3000 9sp mechanical £250
Claris R2000 8sp mechanical £220

Each level saves around 200 grams over the next.

For electronic

Dura-Ace R9150 11sp electronic £1800
Ultegra R8050 11sp electronic £1100

For marketing purposes Ultegra Di2 pricing up around the cost of Dura-Ace mechanical makes sense, but below that it doesn't seem to make sense, as the price differential between groupset levels is perhaps £100, whereas the electronic gubbins adds at least £500.

Saving £100 for a slightly lower groupset level but slapping on £500 for electronic shifting doesn't make much sense. (Granted you could argue that 105 vs Ultegra is just a couple of hundred grams of weight & no performance difference, so why not save the cash, but it seems that it's still a luxury product when it costs as much as the entire mechanical groupset.)

pliptrot
Posts: 534
Joined: 12 Jan 2007, 2:50am

Re: N+1: Opportunity of a Lifetime

Postby pliptrot » 1 Dec 2018, 8:10am

I rather hope that one day I will be sufficiently impressed with some equipment that I may recommend it with something akin to a gushing press release. But not so far. I have spoken to 2 owners of Red etap, and both said they would be unlikely to follow that route again.

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Brucey
Posts: 34269
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: N+1: Opportunity of a Lifetime

Postby Brucey » 1 Dec 2018, 8:43am

thelawnet wrote: I think the electronic bits are quite expensive.....

....For marketing purposes Ultegra Di2 pricing up around the cost of Dura-Ace mechanical makes sense, but below that it doesn't seem to make sense, as the price differential between groupset levels is perhaps £100, whereas the electronic gubbins adds at least £500.....


the price of such groupsets is effectively set by what the market will stand. They need to recoup the development costs and would like to make a healthy profit too; neither thing has that much to do with actual manufacturing costs. Without 'new features' to wow a (largely gadget-obsessed, in general terms) customer base, they would find themselves in competition with more commoditised manufacture of parts and forced to sell on more traditional attributes like weight, aerodynamics, function, durability, sustainability. [FWIW I think that electronic shifting has -at best- a very lumpy score in these traditional terms; in the least good case it is completely useless.]

So yeah they will probably launch cheaper groupsets with electronic shifting, but even with a much reduced premium on them they are still liable to wind up costing about double vs a mechanical group.

Even if they were the same cost they would be of zero interest to me; IMHO they completely pervert both the function and aesthetic of the bicycle.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~