How to Build a Strong Wheel (video guide)

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Canuk
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How to Build a Strong Wheel (video guide)

Postby Canuk » 19 Dec 2018, 6:32am

One of the most comprehensive and easy to follow instructional wheel building guides I've ever seen. From loose spokes/nipples/rim to finished wheel in just over 30 mins:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p2jTrJYJGd8

pwa
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Re: How to Build a Strong Wheel (video guide)

Postby pwa » 19 Dec 2018, 8:02am

I was a little worried for the bloke's laminate flooring.

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fossala
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Re: How to Build a Strong Wheel (video guide)

Postby fossala » 19 Dec 2018, 8:09am

The Lad's a good trials rider as well.

Canuk
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Re: How to Build a Strong Wheel (video guide)

Postby Canuk » 19 Dec 2018, 8:20am

Cardboard boxes used on the floor: the mark of a true tradesman.

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cycleruk
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Re: How to Build a Strong Wheel (video guide)

Postby cycleruk » 19 Dec 2018, 10:02am

He doesn't mention a rim with offset spoke holes. ??
There's no such thing as a tailwind.
It's either a headwind, or you're going well.

Samuel D
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Re: How to Build a Strong Wheel (video guide)

Postby Samuel D » 19 Dec 2018, 10:11am

It’s long but hardly comprehensive. Just the typical rambling of YouTube videos. I didn’t watch it all, but every time I dipped in I heard some bad advice or absurd comment. The wheel is incorrectly laced too, if I’m seeing it clearly enough (clarity being another problem with the video format).

I have to wonder what people think they can offer that the Jobst Brandt book doesn’t do better in fewer words.

Canuk
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Re: How to Build a Strong Wheel (video guide)

Postby Canuk » 19 Dec 2018, 12:50pm

Samuel D wrote:It’s long but hardly comprehensive. Just the typical rambling of YouTube videos. I didn’t watch it all, but every time I dipped in I heard some bad advice or absurd comment. The wheel is incorrectly laced too, if I’m seeing it clearly enough (clarity being another problem with the video format).

I have to wonder what people think they can offer that the Jobst Brandt book doesn’t do better in fewer words.


It's not a book though is it? It's a visual guide to building a strong wheel, and probably the best instructional video on the subject I've seen. I would recommend watching it in its entirety. Dipping in and out is a bit like reading the first page of a book and the last. The wheel is perfectly laced. This guy is a wheel builder to the stars. He supplies all the hand built wheels for the Red Bull cycling team, and is the sole wheel builder for Danny Macaskill, whose wheels probably take the worst punishment of any wheelsets in the world.

His advice on stressing the wheel is I admit quite novel, but a properly stressed while is tangibly stronger and tougher than one poorly or not stressed at all. The major cause of spoke failures.

Samuel D
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Re: How to Build a Strong Wheel (video guide)

Postby Samuel D » 19 Dec 2018, 2:34pm

Canuk wrote:The wheel is perfectly laced.

It’s laced crossed-four, which causes spokes to overlap other spoke heads, given the spoke count and flange diameter. That means you can’t replace a broken spoke easily. And for what supposed advantage?

What’s more, the pulling and pushing spokes aren’t orientated in the best way for a rear wheel with a disc brake. Shimano advises an alternative arrangement for sound reason. Why not follow best practice when issuing instructions?

Canuk wrote:His advice on stressing the wheel is I admit quite novel

It’s not novel but ancient. The merits of it are debatable (and should be debated in the video), but my objection is to the introduction that claims “a common way I see people stress spokes is to get it and try and flex it between their arms”, complete with a visual guide to crushing a wheel in its plane. It’s a made-up observation. No-one does this.

YouTube is full of this sort of woolly waffling. It’s why I prefer books for technical advice.

Canuk wrote:but a properly stressed while is tangibly stronger and tougher than one poorly or not stressed at all.

You mean that stress relieving improves durability, not strength or toughness. But trials wheels might roll 100 km in their life if they’re lucky, so the considerations when building them are quite different from ordinary bicycle wheels.

Canuk wrote:This guy is a wheel builder to the stars.

Appeals to authority don’t convince me. Character flaw of mine.

Tell us the parts of the video you like.

Canuk
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Re: How to Build a Strong Wheel (video guide)

Postby Canuk » 19 Dec 2018, 4:03pm

To be absolutely fair, in the video he does say he prefers cross three, but due to time limitations and supply he had to make use of cross 4. Its kinda stupid to start picking apart an instructional guide like this because by its very nature (the infinite permutations of rim/spoke/hub) it has to be general in approach.

In that respect, if a beginner were to follow the lacing guide and the truing they would likely end up with a decent enough wheel, with practice probably a very good wheel indeed (compared to machine built wheels).

It's not meant to be a guide to every wheel build in the world, if it were it wouldnt be 30 minutes long, it would be 6 times that. It's interesting he cites the rock god of cycle mechanics Sheldon Brown twice, his technique is very twraditional. I've been building my own wheels for 10 years now, but I learned a few tricks from this video, especially the final tension, over tightening and then slightly releasing the tension to allow for stretch and torsion. I've seen a few wheel builders in shops doing this but never really understood why.

All in all I think it demystifies and simplifies what is essentially quite a straightforward process. And for that I absolutely commend it. 5 stars.

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531colin
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Re: How to Build a Strong Wheel (video guide)

Postby 531colin » 19 Dec 2018, 4:29pm

But have you read Brandt?

Canuk
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Re: How to Build a Strong Wheel (video guide)

Postby Canuk » 19 Dec 2018, 4:33pm

531colin wrote:But have you read Brandt?


I have, but like they say... A picture is worth a thousand words.

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531colin
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Re: How to Build a Strong Wheel (video guide)

Postby 531colin » 19 Dec 2018, 5:08pm

Canuk wrote:......….I learned a few tricks from this video, especially the final tension, over tightening and then slightly releasing.....

Yeah, its in Brandt.
But I'll watch your video when I get the chance, and see what I make of it. I've been building wheels for more than 50 years, only maybe 10 years professionally, but thats a big "so what?" as well.
edit....what I mean is that repeating the same mistakes is only a poor sort of experience, irrespective of the length of time .....

Canuk
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Re: How to Build a Strong Wheel (video guide)

Postby Canuk » 20 Dec 2018, 6:02am

531colin wrote:
Canuk wrote:......….I learned a few tricks from this video, especially the final tension, over tightening and then slightly releasing.....

Yeah, its in Brandt.
But I'll watch your video when I get the chance, and see what I make of it. I've been building wheels for more than 50 years, only maybe 10 years professionally, but thats a big "so what?" as well.
edit....what I mean is that repeating the same mistakes is only a poor sort of experience, irrespective of the length of time .....


Absolutely. You have to develop good habits from the get go in wheel building. If not you really are just taking the same mistakes forward in each build. When I started I was putting too much tension into the wheel in the first place and the wheel would egg very quickly. This made things very difficult and lengthy. Now I can build a wheel in half the time.

I normally wheel build in winter, of a cold dark night in front of the wood burner with a glass of wine. I've got a cast iron jig from the 1930's which I've modified and bolted onto a huge lump of oak. It's quite satisfying to have a small rack of wheels ready for the coming year. I couldn't do it for a living though, all the wheel builders I know walk with a humph :wink:

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fausto99
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Re: How to Build a Strong Wheel (video guide)

Postby fausto99 » 20 Dec 2018, 10:31am

Very watchable and easy to follow although I found the background music extremely irritating.

Nothing wrong with the lacing instructions but as said further up this thread, there was no mention of offset spoke holes which do complicate the starting point, where to put the first spoke and which way you twist the hub.

Again, personally, I would major on getting roundness (he called it egg) first, side-to-side second and the dish last. IME, out of round is quite difficult to do last when the tension is high.

Brucey
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Re: How to Build a Strong Wheel (video guide)

Postby Brucey » 20 Dec 2018, 11:10am

531colin wrote:
Canuk wrote:......….I learned a few tricks from this video, especially the final tension, over tightening and then slightly releasing.....

Yeah, its in Brandt.
But I'll watch your video when I get the chance, and see what I make of it. I've been building wheels for more than 50 years, only maybe 10 years professionally, but thats a big "so what?" as well.
edit....what I mean is that repeating the same mistakes is only a poor sort of experience, irrespective of the length of time .....


no kidding. I was chatting to a local wheelbuilder the other day (between us we have about seventy-odd years experience in building wheels) and despite achieving a level of 'some competence' after a few years, we both agreed that we were still learning stuff even after decades and would continue to learn stuff; there are almost infinite permutations and possibilities when it comes to building wheels.

One of the guys in that shop tries new stuff out and tests it; being big and strong and doing lots of miles so he often finds weaknesses in lightweight parts that you wouldn't know were there. This means the shop can give better equipment recommendations based on real experience. He gets that wheelbuilder to build his wheels of course. Recently he broke a rear wheel; a wheel that was so light and with so few spokes that I asked why it had been built for him in the first place. 'He was really keen to try it' I was told. 'He wouldn't take no for an answer and said he was prepared to take the risk'.

I thought about it for a moment and I said "you or I would never have recommended that wheel for him, not in a million years; we would have suggested something slightly heavier and much stronger, wouldn't we?" He nodded. I continued " and that wheel would have been perfectly reliable, yeah?" More nods. "Which we would think was a really good result.... well there are some folk who use such wheels and when they don't break conclude that 'they must be built too heavy' then.... they are bound to want to try lighter and lighter builds until they start breaking stuff...." It honestly hadn't occurred to me until I said it and we both laughed but this is often almost certainly the case.

Not sure there is anything in this vid that I have not seen before, but I'm still learning after about forty years or so....

cheers
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