Shimano brake blocks in Campagnolo Veloce Calipers ?

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Boogaloo
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Shimano brake blocks in Campagnolo Veloce Calipers ?

Postby Boogaloo » 5 Jan 2019, 2:26pm

Does anyone know if I can fit Shimano blocks instead of the Campagnolo ones?
I'm talking about the whole rubber block plus carrier as opposed to just the inserts. For example Shimano 105 BR-5800 (R55C4) Brake Blocks.

Many Thanks

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RickH
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Re: Shimano brake blocks in Campagnolo Veloce Calipers ?

Postby RickH » 5 Jan 2019, 6:19pm

You almost certainly can but I wouldn't swap to Shimano blocks. I found they were very abrasive, especially combined with the hilly, gritty conditions in these parts - I could wear out a Mavic Open Pro in not much more than 4000 miles. Swapping to something that worked as well, such as BBB blocks, improved rim life significantly.

Other makes of blocks can be bought as a kit with holders then you only have to buy blocks. If your Campag brakes already have holders you will probably be able to buy alternative blocks that fit the holders.

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Mick F
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Re: Shimano brake blocks in Campagnolo Veloce Calipers ?

Postby Mick F » 5 Jan 2019, 6:26pm

Campag for me every time.

The Shimano blocks on Moulton are wearing out, and I'll be fitting Campag soon. I have a pair of holders from previous Campag brakes, so it's easy to swap over. Shimano holders and worn-out blocks will be going in the bin.
Mick F. Cornwall

Brucey
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Re: Shimano brake blocks in Campagnolo Veloce Calipers ?

Postby Brucey » 5 Jan 2019, 6:57pm

there is more than one different compound in shimano brake blocks, so tarring them all with the same brush is not necessarily a useful or valid thing to do. Normally you can fit brake blocks (holders + inserts) of a different type to another manufacturer's brakes but in a few cases you may need to do a little filing to make everything fit.

Positive reasons for choosing shimano 105 brake blocks and holders are that

a) the holder design has a built-in swivel so allows toe adjustment (not all do) and
b) there is a wider choice of inserts to fit shimano holders than campag.

However the best inserts are made in both patterns and I think most of the better campag holders have the toe adjustment too. However campagnolo pattern shoes often seem to rely on the insert being a tight fit in the holders rather than a locking screw; this is a mixed blessing since the locking screws are often problematic, but on the other hand occasionally inserts that are a tight fit when they are new can mysteriously shrink and work loose over time.

looking here (could be cheaper elsewhere BTW)

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brake-blocks-caliper/?page=3

of the brake block holders that have a built-in swivel the least expensive appear to be Ambrosio (campag type), Ashima, Aztec and Clark's gold. Provided the inserts supplied are not rim wreckers (I think the main objection to the clarks gold ones is that they don't last that long rather than that they wear your rims out BTW) then you can use whatever inserts you fancy in them once the originals have worn out.

Looking at the ambrosio ones, it looks like you get two pairs for £8; no idea what the inserts are like but the tri-colour ones are often better than the most basic ones at least.

cheers
Last edited by Brucey on 5 Jan 2019, 7:10pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mick F
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Re: Shimano brake blocks in Campagnolo Veloce Calipers ?

Postby Mick F » 5 Jan 2019, 7:07pm

Dunno about Shimano stuff much, but what I have is ok-ish but not brilliant.
Campag Record blocks and holders are brilliant and as I have a set going spare, they will be used next.
Mick F. Cornwall

gfk_velo
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Re: Shimano brake blocks in Campagnolo Veloce Calipers ?

Postby gfk_velo » 6 Jan 2019, 12:55am

Boogaloo wrote:Does anyone know if I can fit Shimano blocks instead of the Campagnolo ones?
I'm talking about the whole rubber block plus carrier as opposed to just the inserts. For example Shimano 105 BR-5800 (R55C4) Brake Blocks.

Many Thanks


Yes. Campagnolo make a Shimano-compatible shoe that is a direct and correct fit - BR-CA500, comes as a set of four with pads.
The pads are retained by a screw in the same way as Shimano, SRAM etc.
Head Technician and Director, Velotech Cycling Ltd,
Nationwide modular mechanic's training in all bicycle types
Campagnolo's main factory-appointed UK Technical and Service Centre

gfk_velo
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Re: Shimano brake blocks in Campagnolo Veloce Calipers ?

Postby gfk_velo » 6 Jan 2019, 1:01am

Brucey wrote: However campagnolo pattern shoes often seem to rely on the insert being a tight fit in the holders rather than a locking screw; this is a mixed blessing since the locking screws are often problematic, but on the other hand occasionally inserts that are a tight fit when they are new can mysteriously shrink and work loose over time.



Campag have used a spring-clip retainer, rather than simply a tight fit, in all the Campagnolo-fit shoes for for some time now, since 2013. Having said that, I don't think I have ever seen a Campag block come out of a pre-2013 shoe in use, other than when a team mate chose to change his own pads and managed to get the shoes in the calipers back-to-front ...
The Shimano-fit shoes that they make use the same retention system as Shimano.
All have orbital washers and have sufficient clearance in the Campagnolo calipers to allow the orbital washers to work.
Head Technician and Director, Velotech Cycling Ltd,
Nationwide modular mechanic's training in all bicycle types
Campagnolo's main factory-appointed UK Technical and Service Centre

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Mick F
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Re: Shimano brake blocks in Campagnolo Veloce Calipers ?

Postby Mick F » 6 Jan 2019, 10:20am

Yep.
Agree in it all.

I use washing-up liquid and careful use of a vice to fit new blocks. The old ones are weedled out with a thin screwdriver.
My Shimano brakes have securing screws - previous ones were Tektro and they had screws too - I've always considered them overkill.
Mick F. Cornwall

Brucey
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Re: Shimano brake blocks in Campagnolo Veloce Calipers ?

Postby Brucey » 6 Jan 2019, 12:27pm

I never thought that 'old-old' campag brake blocks were going to come loose in service but I have seen some instances of third-party brake blocks (in a modern fitting also with a sliding fit) changing size by themselves in storage; presumably the rubber carried on curing outside the mould and changed shape. Anyway the result was that new inserts that had been struggle to fit (to the point that I thought any secondary retention would probably be superfluous) became a loose fit in the holder, over a period of a few months. This happened to both little-used parts on the bike as well as spares I'd assembled and left unused in a box.

I'd expect genuine parts to be OK but third party brake blocks I'd treat with caution, making sure that any secondary retention devices were installed and working correctly.

cheers
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Boogaloo
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Re: Shimano brake blocks in Campagnolo Veloce Calipers ?

Postby Boogaloo » 7 Jan 2019, 10:38am

Thanks for the replies. I currently have the very basic Veloce shoes so just replacing the inserts is not an option and anyway my experience with replacing the inserts in my Daytona carriers was enough to put me off trying again.
I also have several Shimano caliper bikes and am happy with the insert replacement procedure which is why I will go in that direction.
Agreed re compounds and aftermarket options so now I'm happy that Shimano design shoes will fit the Campagnolo calipers I will do some research. Thanks for the links Brucey.

Boogaloo
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Re: Shimano brake blocks in Campagnolo Veloce Calipers ?

Postby Boogaloo » 7 Jan 2019, 1:31pm

Correction.....
On closer inspection I see that my Veloce blocks are indeed of the carrier with replaceable pad design.
My excuse is that they are black and were dirty...
Also it seems that they are of the later shape so the set of spare pads (bought incorrectly) in my box may well fit....
So despite what I have said earlier I am about to attempt replacement....
Now where's the Fairy liquid?

:oops: :oops: :oops:

robert17
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Re: Shimano brake blocks in Campagnolo Veloce Calipers ?

Postby robert17 » 7 Jan 2019, 5:47pm

Over many years I have come to rely on Clarks blocks. Never been anything other than great.

Brucey
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Re: Shimano brake blocks in Campagnolo Veloce Calipers ?

Postby Brucey » 7 Jan 2019, 7:57pm

Boogaloo wrote:Correction.....
On closer inspection I see that my Veloce blocks are indeed of the carrier with replaceable pad design.
My excuse is that they are black and were dirty...
Also it seems that they are of the later shape so the set of spare pads (bought incorrectly) in my box may well fit....
So despite what I have said earlier I am about to attempt replacement....
Now where's the Fairy liquid?

:oops: :oops: :oops:


the 'wrong pads' might be a happy accident yet....

I once cleaned a set of used brakes up and discovered that the shoes were actually coloured white. I'd had them for some time and assumed they were black or dark grey.....they do get rather dirty, don't they....

cheers
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