Trp levers with shimano

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webber
Posts: 235
Joined: 2 May 2012, 3:48pm

Trp levers with shimano

Postby webber » 11 Jan 2019, 7:31am


Brucey
Posts: 31978
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Trp levers with shimano

Postby Brucey » 11 Jan 2019, 11:56am

I've not used these levers myself so I have no direct knowledge of the MA (mechanical advantage) but here

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/BLTRPRRLSR/trp-rrl-sr-vintage-style-road-brake-levers

it suggests that they have a short cable pull so are good for road calipers and cantis. It appears as if the cable attachment is close to the pivot, and if so the MA is high, maybe as high as 4:1. This surprises me.

The brake calipers (BR-R561) are (another surprise) listed amongst those which are compatible with current (New Super SLR) brake levers, which have a lower MA and a long cable pull than is correct for first generation DP (dual pivot) calipers.

So I think the answer is 'no' but it is exactly the other way round from what I'd thought; this combination will probably give a mushy brake with less running clearance at the rim than is desirable.

I think with those brake levers you would be better off with a first generation DP caliper, eg from another manufacturer or from shimano groupset with a launch date pre 2008. Of current shimano calipers BR-R650 and BR-R451 have the correct cable pull but they also have a different reach.

Note that the actual caliper MA depends on where the brake blocks are set in the slot; thus the caliper MA of a short reach NSSLR caliper with the brake blocks in the bottom of the slot is about the same as a first generation DP caliper with the blocks in the top of the slot.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Samuel D
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Location: Paris

Re: Trp levers with shimano

Postby Samuel D » 11 Jan 2019, 12:51pm

For a moment then I thought the BR-R561 was (at long last!) a 57 mm drop calliper for New Super SLR cable pull (or the similar SLR EV, although I think the cam action of that one is slightly different throughout the pull?).

In addition to the mushy feel that this lever-calliper combination would provide, you run the risk of the lever hitting the bars before generating full braking in an emergency stop. For this reason, Shimano bans the combo (but not combos mismatched in the other way). If you run it anyway, you’d have to carefully adjust the barrel for pad wear on a frequent basis (including mid-ride). I do that anyway but not all cyclists will be bothered.

If you already have the levers, there are plenty of NOS or good-condition Super SLR callipers on eBay. If you already have the brakes, there are plenty of more suitable levers. Best to get it right when you have that choice, I think.

webber
Posts: 235
Joined: 2 May 2012, 3:48pm

Re: Trp levers with shimano

Postby webber » 11 Jan 2019, 3:46pm

Cheers for the replys i have the calipers so looking for brake levers any suggestions

webber
Posts: 235
Joined: 2 May 2012, 3:48pm

Re: Trp levers with shimano

Postby webber » 11 Jan 2019, 3:53pm

Would these work with the calipers https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/ ... 400.html???

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SimonCelsa
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Joined: 6 Apr 2011, 10:19pm

Re: Trp levers with shimano

Postby SimonCelsa » 11 Jan 2019, 4:29pm

I bought a set of those TRP levers from PlanetX last year and paired them with the Ultegra R650 callipers. No problems.

A friend also bought the 'retro' gum hood ones and paired these with I think some Campagnolo calipers. Can't remember which ones but they were black, reasonable quality and going cheap. He hasn't used the bike much but when I last rode with him he seemed to stop without any great faff.

Hope that helps.

Samuel D
Posts: 2414
Joined: 8 Mar 2015, 11:05pm
Location: Paris

Re: Trp levers with shimano

Postby Samuel D » 11 Jan 2019, 5:01pm

webber wrote:Would these work with the calipers https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/ ... 400.html???

Not ideally, because those are Super SLR and your callipers are New Super SLR. The levers don’t pull quite enough cable.

SimonCelsa wrote:I bought a set of those TRP levers from PlanetX last year and paired them with the Ultegra R650 callipers. No problems.

But the BR-R650 callipers are Super SLR, not New Super SLR like the BR-R561. If Brucey is right about the lever’s mechanical advantage, your experience would be expected.

I haven’t shopped for New Super SLR levers, but I had the impression Cane Creek, Dia-Compe, Tektro, etc., all made suitable models. I’ll let someone else make recommendations because I just don’t know.

drossall
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Location: North Hertfordshire

Re: Trp levers with shimano

Postby drossall » 12 Jan 2019, 5:36pm

Blimey this sounds complicated. Are there any good pages explaining what's happened with cable pulls and so on for those of us who weren't paying attention? I understand the basics of MA etc., it's just that, because I don't buy kit often enough, I hadn't noticed that there were 36 different generations of Shimano brakes, each requiring a different lever. I'm still happily using some Tektro levers with Shimano brakes (but yes, probably from before 2008).

Manufacturers' ability to innovate different ways of making kit incompatible with every other bit of kit except that year of the same groupset is beginning to leave me behind.

webber
Posts: 235
Joined: 2 May 2012, 3:48pm

Re: Trp levers with shimano

Postby webber » 12 Jan 2019, 5:51pm

drossall wrote:Blimey this sounds complicated. Are there any good pages explaining what's happened with cable pulls and so on for those of us who weren't paying attention? I understand the basics of MA etc., it's just that, because I don't buy kit often enough, I hadn't noticed that there were 36 different generations of Shimano brakes, each requiring a different lever. I'm still happily using some Tektro levers with Shimano brakes (but yes, probably from before 2008).

Manufacturers' ability to innovate different ways of making kit incompatible with every other bit of kit except that year of the same groupset is beginning to leave me behind.

I know its a bit of a headache ive desided to leave shimano alone now and get new brakes and leavers

Brucey
Posts: 31978
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Trp levers with shimano

Postby Brucey » 12 Jan 2019, 9:39pm

the shimano compatibility tables will help here. They reckon it is OK to use NSSLR levers with BR-R650 calipers, but that the power will be reduced. [However using NSSLR calipers with older levers is verboten].

I think it is usually slightly worse than that, for the simple reason that if you buy BR-R650 calipers, you are only likely to do that if you need the reach, i.e. the brake blocks are very likely to end up in the bottom of the slots, where the caliper MA is least.

I also note that whilst Tektro mention the caliper MA in some cases (I recall that some brake models were specified as having 'the new cable pull' when they first came out), they don't make two different (basic) aero levers for DP brakes. This suggests to me that they have either quietly revised extant levers (like RL340) or that their original cable pull was a bit longer than shimanos so didn't need changing when NSSLR calipers came along.

BTW my understanding is that SRAM and campag have not recently changed the MA of their levers and calipers; they are the same as they always have been, (for DP calipers anyway).

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~