Spoke Re-use: Sorting insides from outsides

[alexnharvey]

Yes, that's what I had intended . I think Sheldon led me astray. Is the "key spoke" still going to be trailing but now head in?

[531colin]

Yes, that's what I had intended . I think Sheldon led me astray. Is the "key spoke" still going to be trailing but now head in?

Rather depends what you mean by "key spoke"
Driveside pulling (trailing) spoke wants to be head in (elbow outside flange, Brandt's outbound) ....but I always start with the Head out ( inbound, elbow inside flange) because they are a bugger to lace in when the other lot are there first.
As Brucey says, reverse the heads in/out for a disc wheel on the disc side, so the spokes pulling under braking have their elbows outside the flange (for better support of the elbow)

[alexnharvey]

On Sheldon's method the key spoke is by the valve hole. So I did it head out on the drive side and intended it to trail, then trailing NDS, then as pictured I'd just started the leading spokes on the DS. Not sure how I ended up with 2x.

If I follow your suggestion starting with head in, trailing will I be lacing it to the hole in front or behind the valve hole?

Can I assume if the rim eyes are offset they should be towards the flange they pull to?

[531colin]

On Sheldon's method the key spoke is by the valve hole. So I did it head out on the drive side and intended it to trail, then trailing NDS, then as pictured I'd just started the leading spokes on the DS. Not sure how I ended up with 2x.

If I follow your suggestion starting with head in, trailing will I be lacing it to the hole in front or behind the valve hole?

Can I assume if the rim eyes are offset they should be towards the flange they pull to?

I'm suggesting starting with head out. On the driveside these will be pushing/leading spokes so the first spoke goes in behind the valve hole and you twist the hub anticlockwise. I start with the head out spokes only because they are a pain to fit if the other spokes are already in the wheel.
Yes, offset rim eyelets always face the flange the spoke goes to.

[531colin]

I was just thinking this is so easy if we are sat next to each other with a wheel we can see and touch.....
I have a wheel with exactly your hub doing nothing, so here are the pictures.....
Driveside….https://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/45899774145/in/dateposted-public/
Disc side...https://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/45899778815/in/dateposted-public/
I used to be able to paste images on the CTC website, I have lost the ability......

The business of which side of the flange the spokes go is a "counsel of perfection".
Much more important in my view are
Stress-relief
spokes tight and even.

[alexnharvey]

Thanks Colin. Unfortunately children are delaying my next step!

[531colin]

Enjoy them while they are young. We only rent them, you know.

[Brucey]

re x2 vs x3; you would need different length spokes for x3 so with the spokes you have x2 is presumably your only choice.

cheers

[alexnharvey]

It was an error in the lacing pattern rather than the spoke length, trying to follow Sheldon and adapt it to Shimano's pattern for rear disc and also your previous descriptions on this forum got me confused. I now also see how spoke length often makes the right hole obvious

I got the drive side laced fairly easily with the extra aid of Colin's description and picturesand my eldest boy laced a few spokes too. Then ended up with another 2x lacing on the NDS before I got it all sorted

Final six to go on the NDS tomorrow and then I'll discover of they're too long as I tension it.

Oh, measured ERD was as per the manufacturer, 594mm.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
I normally count the rivets between each spoke of same set, speeds it up, problem is I cant always count
Every fifth on 3X 32 or 36, probably got that wrong too

[531colin]

Hub has 2 flanges, each flange has head in and head out spokes. That's four "sets" of spokes, 9 spokes per set in a 36 spoke wheel.
So in any one set you are lacing up, the spokes go in every fourth hole.
In the rim, the sequence is....
current hole.....spoke from "my set" obviously
miss one hole...…..for a spoke from opposite flange
miss second hole....for a spoke from the other set in my flange
miss third hole.....for a spoke from opposite flange
fourth hole....next spoke from my set

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Four spaces, so I count the existing spoke and the next spoke to place, my madness says the spoke in hole one, count to five and place next spoke.
I will have to check my sanity but why is the same method applied to same x cross (3) on 32 spoke wheel, probably because there are still four sets, so four spaces, I just find it easier to count the rivet's occupied by adjacent spokes of same set.
Otherwise you count next holes (4) and ignore existing spoke.
Five holes four spaces

[531colin]

There are 3 spoke holes in the rim between adjacent spokes of the same "set" eg. of 9.
Most easily seem when lacing up the first "set", there are 3 empty spoke holes in the rim between the spokes you are putting in.

[alexnharvey]

I'm not happy with how gappy the inside spokes are to the flange. Because the alpine IIIs are 13g at the elbow it's quite tricky to get them to take a set against the flange on the inside. If I use a hardwood or leather faced stick as a punch, can/should I gently tap/batter them to get a better set? Outsides all look fine after a bit of soft faced tapping. Wheel's not up to full tension or trued yet.

[Brucey]

Would have been easiest if you used spoke washers on those spokes from the start. From where you are now....nothing is easy. Re-setting 13G bends is V difficult like you say and pulling all the inside spokes out of a x2 wheel to fit spoke washers ain't easy either.

Learning how to build strong durable wheels necessitates that you sometimes have to take two steps backwards to take one step forwards.

cheers