Dynamos - Hub or Bottle?

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skyhawk
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Re: Dynamos - Hub or Bottle?

Postby skyhawk » 26 Jun 2019, 8:23pm

With LiPo,NiMh etc why would people want anything else
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Carlton green
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Re: Dynamos - Hub or Bottle?

Postby Carlton green » 26 Jun 2019, 9:43pm

skyhawk wrote:With LiPo,NiMh etc why would people want anything else


I’m assuming that they’re types of battery and therefore we risk diverting the thread into battery lights versus Dynamo - no problem having that discussion in a separate thread though it’s perhaps already been recently held. I’ll answer your question here and hope that that’s enough for you.

To my mind Dynamos are superior to batteries for a broad variety of simple reasons:
# Batteries are chemical devices that are difficult to safely dispose of and/or recycle at the end of their life, so ecological implications. I do use batteries but prefer to avoid their use when I can.
# Batteries need to be charged which is both a faff and a matter of logistics.
# Batteries have a finite charge, when it’s gone the lights go out,
# Batteries can be heavy.
# Batteries can be expensive.
# A new Dynamo has a relatively low ecological footprint compared to a battery and low at end of life too.
# A Dynamo is an on demand device, ask it for electricity and it will give it to you (no charging) and limitlessly supply (no time limitation).
# A bottle Dynamo is light and a hub Dynamo shares its additional weight between hub (you need a hub in a wheel anyway) and Dynamo element.
# A bottle Dynamo can be had relatively cheaply and Hub Dynamos are good value too (you get a hub plus a Dynamo).
# A hub Dynamo can be used to charge up small electrical devices on say a long tour, it’s a mini power station.
# Dynamos do take some small effort to turn and do stop supplying power when the wheel stops, but nothing is perfect and that ‘defect’ is easy enough to live with.
# Dynamos do supply a maximin of around 3 Watts, so less than Batteries might, but with modern LED lights that's plenty of power.

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Paulatic
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Re: Dynamos - Hub or Bottle?

Postby Paulatic » 26 Jun 2019, 10:26pm

Carlton green wrote:[
Snipped a lot of facts .


You forgot dynamo lights permanently fixed so harder to steal and impossible to forget. :D
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PH
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Re: Dynamos - Hub or Bottle?

Postby PH » 26 Jun 2019, 11:32pm

skyhawk wrote:With LiPo,NiMh etc why would people want anything else

Those people with cars always seem to :wink:
Some of us use a bike in the same way others use cars; always having your lights with you, adjusted and ready to go isn't an optional extra it's part of the bike we want.
Plus - along with the list from Carlton - The beam from a dynamo light is usually better, putting all the light where you need it and not dazzling oncoming traffic and scaring the birds out of the trees. There's no reason battery lights can't have the same beam patterns, some do, but the vast majority don't.

skyhawk
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Re: Dynamos - Hub or Bottle?

Postby skyhawk » 27 Jun 2019, 7:31am

Carlton green wrote:
skyhawk wrote:With LiPo,NiMh etc why would people want anything else


I’m assuming that they’re types of battery and therefore we risk diverting the thread into battery lights versus Dynamo - no problem having that discussion in a separate thread though it’s perhaps already been recently held. I’ll answer your question here and hope that that’s enough for you.

To my mind Dynamos are superior to batteries for a broad variety of simple reasons:
# Batteries are chemical devices that are difficult to safely dispose of and/or recycle at the end of their life, so ecological implications. I do use batteries but prefer to avoid their use when I can.
# Batteries need to be charged which is both a faff and a matter of logistics.
# Batteries have a finite charge, when it’s gone the lights go out,
# Batteries can be heavy.
# Batteries can be expensive.
# A new Dynamo has a relatively low ecological footprint compared to a battery and low at end of life too.
# A Dynamo is an on demand device, ask it for electricity and it will give it to you (no charging) and limitlessly supply (no time limitation).
# A bottle Dynamo is light and a hub Dynamo shares its additional weight between hub (you need a hub in a wheel anyway) and Dynamo element.
# A bottle Dynamo can be had relatively cheaply and Hub Dynamos are good value too (you get a hub plus a Dynamo).
# A hub Dynamo can be used to charge up small electrical devices on say a long tour, it’s a mini power station.
# Dynamos do take some small effort to turn and do stop supplying power when the wheel stops, but nothing is perfect and that ‘defect’ is easy enough to live with.
# Dynamos do supply a maximin of around 3 Watts, so less than Batteries might, but with modern LED lights that's plenty of power.




A set of NiMh batteries is £12 fora GOOD set,they can be re charged 600 times at least making them 0.02p per use, considering a set would last say one week,that is 600 weeks 11+ years, is that, (I am terrible at maths).

But thanks for the info.



..
Both I and my son are Autistic. We have aspergers and ADHD, not stupid :). If I sound "blunt" in my posts, please be understanding : I am not perfect. Thank you. Visit https://www.asdinfowales.co.uk/ to learn more

Brucey
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Re: Dynamos - Hub or Bottle?

Postby Brucey » 27 Jun 2019, 7:52am

IME batteries very rarely live up to their billing when it comes to numbers of recharges, self discharge rates, capacities and goodness knows what else besides. And I don't think I have ever owned a battery operated lamp (of any kind) that didn't at some point do something weird simply because the batteries were not that well connected to the rest of it after all.

If you do, by some miracle, manage to charge up a set of batteries 600 times, and it takes (say) two or three minutes to do what is necessary, congratulations are due; you have just spent about one working week of your life tending to the needs of your stupid parasitical batteries when you could have been doing more useful or interesting instead.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

pwa
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Re: Dynamos - Hub or Bottle?

Postby pwa » 27 Jun 2019, 8:03am

When I was commuting regularly with battery lamps I worked out a reliable system that never saw me without adequate lighting. It was based on NiMHs and the most reliable lamps I could find, two up front and two behind. And I bought a new set of batteries once a year. That was an expense, but it meant I never had battery worries. I charged my batteries once a week and popped them back in the lamps on Sunday evening ready for the week ahead. I won't say which lamps I used because they are no longer made so it would be of no use to anyone.

I'd say my system was as reliable as a dynamo system. I did try a Nordlicht bottle dynamo in those days but it was rubbish in the wet. I'd never put a bottle dynamo on the bike again. I'd only use a hub system.

Carlton green
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Re: Dynamos - Hub or Bottle?

Postby Carlton green » 27 Jun 2019, 9:42am

@ Skyhawk “But thanks for the info”.

You’re very welcome. What I would say you, and to anyone else that cares to listen, is that we are all individuals and have differences from each other. In my experience different solutions can be and are a better fit, to an individual’s needs and abilities, than the available alternatives. ie. one solution doesn’t always suit all.

pwa
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Re: Dynamos - Hub or Bottle?

Postby pwa » 27 Jun 2019, 12:01pm

Carlton green wrote:@ Skyhawk “But thanks for the info”.

You’re very welcome. What I would say you, and to anyone else that cares to listen, is that we are all individuals and have differences from each other. In my experience different solutions can be and are a better fit, to an individual’s needs and abilities, than the available alternatives. ie. one solution doesn’t always suit all.

Amen to that.

PH
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Re: Dynamos - Hub or Bottle?

Postby PH » 27 Jun 2019, 12:15pm

skyhawk wrote:A set of NiMh batteries is £12 fora GOOD set,they can be re charged 600 times at least making them 0.02p per use, considering a set would last say one week,that is 600 weeks 11+ years, is that, (I am terrible at maths).
..

Nice theory, do you have any that have lasted that long? Know anyone else who has? I don't.
I'd need to charge mine daily, plus I'd have to find another way to keep my phone running. My older dynamo hub is 16 years old and is likely to outlive me.

pwa
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Re: Dynamos - Hub or Bottle?

Postby pwa » 27 Jun 2019, 12:26pm

PH wrote:
skyhawk wrote:A set of NiMh batteries is £12 fora GOOD set,they can be re charged 600 times at least making them 0.02p per use, considering a set would last say one week,that is 600 weeks 11+ years, is that, (I am terrible at maths).
..

Nice theory, do you have any that have lasted that long? Know anyone else who has? I don't.
I'd need to charge mine daily, plus I'd have to find another way to keep my phone running. My older dynamo hub is 16 years old and is likely to outlive me.

How do you get on with charging stuff by dynamo? Every micro USB product I've had has a very limited lifespan. USB connections don't even last all that well indoors. Very flimsy stuff. Not that I'm offering a better solution.

PH
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Re: Dynamos - Hub or Bottle?

Postby PH » 27 Jun 2019, 12:41pm

pwa wrote:
PH wrote:I'd need to charge mine daily, plus I'd have to find another way to keep my phone running. My older dynamo hub is 16 years old and is likely to outlive me.

How do you get on with charging stuff by dynamo? Every micro USB product I've had has a very limited lifespan. USB connections don't even last all that well indoors. Very flimsy stuff. Not that I'm offering a better solution.

I've been using the Sinewave Revolution since November, doing about 20 hours a week Deliveroo (Over anything from 2 - 5 days) which is pretty app intensive, it's been faultless. I have had a few problems with iPhone cables, but that has nothing to do with the charger (They usually fail at the phone end)

bgnukem
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Joined: 20 Dec 2010, 5:21pm

Re: Dynamos - Hub or Bottle?

Postby bgnukem » 27 Jun 2019, 3:43pm

skyhawk wrote:With LiPo,NiMh etc why would people want anything else


Because battery lights never seem to achieve their rated run times IME and on more than one occasion I've been left in the dark or stressing about how much time I've got to get home. Also using rechargeables for environmental reasons the charge seems to dissipate while the lights are sitting around so I'm never quite sure how much time I have left. Carrying spare batteries and trying to replace them in the dark is more hassle again, plus the charge dissipates while they are stored in my bike bag.....

Hub dynamos are just a lot less stress!!

skyhawk
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Re: Dynamos - Hub or Bottle?

Postby skyhawk » 27 Jun 2019, 5:50pm

Both I and my son are Autistic. We have aspergers and ADHD, not stupid :). If I sound "blunt" in my posts, please be understanding : I am not perfect. Thank you. Visit https://www.asdinfowales.co.uk/ to learn more

Carlton green
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Re: Dynamos - Hub or Bottle?

Postby Carlton green » 27 Jun 2019, 9:18pm

skyhawk wrote:Reminds me of Bart Simpson

https://gfycat.com/powerfulunfinishedde ... light-bike


I’d like to say that I’ve never had that problem but it wouldn’t be completely true. :oops:

In reality the diminished or effectively none existent output of a Dynamo at very low speeds isn't a deal breaker and users find sufficient ways around the problem. Personally I believe in the merits of having a cheap set of battery lights available as a back up system (with a bit of research it’s amazing what you can get for around a tenner) and as an option which can provide a bit of light when stationary. I’ve also used a head torch for extra light whilst riding with basic Smart brand (nice but not expensive) battery lights. As they say “where there is a will there is a way”.