Cassette lockring issue

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Thornyone
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Joined: 7 Dec 2017, 11:15am

Cassette lockring issue

Postby Thornyone » 24 Jan 2019, 9:25am

I have removed lots of cassettes over the years and fortunately only once have I had to resort to removing one by unscrewing the freehub body and scrapping both it and the worn cassette. I simply could not unscrew the cassette lockring. I broke my chain whip, nearly got a hernia, and was seriously worried by the strain I was putting on the wheel. I wonder how common this issue is. I am reasonably strong and was using the correct removal tool held by a long Bahco adjustable spanner.

I’m sure I hadn’t cross-threaded it on installation. It would not have corroded: I always use copper grease on the threads. Had I maybe simply tightened too enthusiastically when installing (I don’t own a torc wrench)?

Dave?

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Cassette lockring issue

Postby Brucey » 24 Jan 2019, 10:02am

the serrations are usually shaped so that the tightening torque is slightly less than the breakaway torque. This allows the lockring to stay put in the face of forces (such as precession and settling in the assembly) that might otherwise allow it to come loose. Obviously like any screw threaded fastener dirt and corrosion over time can make it more difficult to move when the time comes.


If you want to be sure to shift something, there is no substitute for longer levers; most chain whips are not very good and are easily improved upon. For the splined tool (with the right equipment) there is no limit to the length of the levers that can be applied.

For example I have some chain whips that are about 18" long and you can use both of them if you want to. For the splined tool it can be held in place with the QR and then a bench vice or a deep socket can be used. If the socket is used with a breaker bar that swivels more than 90 degrees, the action of the tool can be in the same plane so the tool isn't trying to cam out of the lockring.

LBS will have better tools than most folk and are usually happy to help; if you take them a loose wheel it may be mere seconds to get the lockring off.

It is also worth noting that you can also use destructive methods to release the parts; after all the cassette and lockring are going in the bin if they are worn out. A few minutes with an angle grinder will take the flange off the lockring; once this is done it usually unscrews rather more easily.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

iandusud
Posts: 184
Joined: 26 Mar 2018, 1:35pm

Re: Cassette lockring issue

Postby iandusud » 24 Jan 2019, 11:38am

I don't think I've ever come across a loose lockring on a cassette but I've come across many that have clearly been over-tightened. IME it is not necessary to do much more than nip them up with a few good clicks (I know - very subjective). But those clicks are there to stop the thing coming undone and there aren't much in the way of forces trying to undo it. This is unlike the days of freewheels when ones with particularly badly designed removal dogs would be impossible to remove without destructive means.

Thornyone
Posts: 342
Joined: 7 Dec 2017, 11:15am

Re: Cassette lockring issue

Postby Thornyone » 24 Jan 2019, 11:47am

Thanks for the replies. I haven’t got an angle grinder, so if I can’t easily remove the current one I have, I’ll try the LBS.
I’m probably guilty of over-tightening, so I’ll be very careful when I install the new one. Maybe the copper grease assisted over-tightening too?

Dave :)

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
Location: English Riviera

Re: Cassette lockring issue

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 24 Jan 2019, 12:16pm

Hi,
iandusud wrote:I don't think I've ever come across a loose lockring on a cassette but I've come across many that have clearly been over-tightened. IME it is not necessary to do much more than nip them up with a few good clicks (I know - very subjective). But those clicks are there to stop the thing coming undone and there aren't much in the way of forces trying to undo it. This is unlike the days of freewheels when ones with particularly badly designed removal dogs would be impossible to remove without destructive means.

Unfortunately a few click will allow the cogs to move around and wear the freehub spline, well a set up in my hands any way :)
As said normal length chainwhips are a bit short, and always use use a qr on the tool, also I slather grease on the serrations to help prevent corrosion,
Priority Is Still 500K In 24..Just Dreaming...Stay Focused Guys And Keep Sharp...
You'll Find Me At The Top Of a Hill...............Somewhere...After Dark..

Brucey
Posts: 32770
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Cassette lockring issue

Postby Brucey » 24 Jan 2019, 12:45pm

IME cassette lockrings are rarely installed with 'too much torque'; they most often work loose and this knackers the freehub body (yes even steel ones). If you are having trouble getting it off (more torque than was used to install) this means you did a good job or the parts have corroded.

I would not recommend using a lower torque to tighten a cassette lockring unless said lockring/freehub body was aluminium and there was a risk of the threads stripping.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

iandusud
Posts: 184
Joined: 26 Mar 2018, 1:35pm

Re: Cassette lockring issue

Postby iandusud » 24 Jan 2019, 2:26pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Unfortunately a few click will allow the cogs to move around and wear the freehub spline, well a set up in my hands any way :)
As said normal length chainwhips are a bit short, and always use use a qr on the tool, also I slather grease on the serrations to help prevent corrosion,


I said a few GOOD clicks :D

iandusud
Posts: 184
Joined: 26 Mar 2018, 1:35pm

Re: Cassette lockring issue

Postby iandusud » 24 Jan 2019, 2:29pm

Brucey wrote:IME cassette lockrings are rarely installed with 'too much torque'; they most often work loose and this knackers the freehub body (yes even steel ones). If you are having trouble getting it off (more torque than was used to install) this means you did a good job or the parts have corroded.

I would not recommend using a lower torque to tighten a cassette lockring unless said lockring/freehub body was aluminium and there was a risk of the threads stripping.

cheers


Interesting how people's experiences differ. I've never actually noted the recommended torque for the lockring. I'll have a look and try it with a torque wrench to see how it corresponds to my "few good clicks"!

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Location: English Riviera

Re: Cassette lockring issue

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 24 Jan 2019, 2:39pm

Hi,
I haven't a clue what torque (I have no torque wrench) , too many years of repairing others rubbish and my new and old vehicles through almost 99.5 % pass mot's :)
But I struggle to undo it, wheel against the wall, whip handle on a rest and yes a 18" wrench, sometimes a vice to hold the whip, corrosion is never a problem.
Priority Is Still 500K In 24..Just Dreaming...Stay Focused Guys And Keep Sharp...
You'll Find Me At The Top Of a Hill...............Somewhere...After Dark..

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Cassette lockring issue

Postby Brucey » 24 Jan 2019, 6:29pm

iandusud wrote:
Interesting how people's experiences differ. I've never actually noted the recommended torque for the lockring......


it is marked on most lockrings.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

AndyA
Posts: 355
Joined: 21 Mar 2009, 9:16pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Cassette lockring issue

Postby AndyA » 24 Jan 2019, 8:23pm

Cyclists have weak upper bodies, get your legs involved!
If you arrange the chainwhip so that the handle is resting against the leg of a workbench or other solid upright (doorframe possibly), then fit your lockring remover so it's sticking forward horizontally you can give it a bloody great stomp that will loosen any lockring :twisted:

PT1029
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Joined: 16 Apr 2012, 9:20pm

Re: Cassette lockring issue

Postby PT1029 » 24 Jan 2019, 8:58pm

Sometimes I come across stuck lock rings.
Put splined tool spanner/chain whip handles on opposite sides, hold (upright) wheel on the ground/tool handles horizontal so you need to push down to loosen.
Use a spare finger or 2 to grip the wheel rim/spoke, lift and thump down hard on the ground, the shock usually loosens things.
Agree angle grinding the front off the lock ring works.