Bottom bracket - and tools - for 1986 Raleigh Road Ace

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keyboardmonkey
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Bottom bracket - and tools - for 1986 Raleigh Road Ace

Postby keyboardmonkey » 29 Jan 2019, 2:18pm

Please forgive the poor photos (I haven't got round to taking off the cranks), but I would be grateful if anyone could help me to identify the correct tools to remove and replace the bottom bracket on my 1986 Raleigh Road Ace:

Raleigh Road Ace bottom bracket near side.JPG
Raleigh Road Ace bottom bracket near side


Raleigh Road Ace bottom bracket drive side.JPG
Raleigh Road Ace bottom bracket drive side


I think I have the correct tool to remove the cranks for a better view, but just in case anyone can help me before I do that I would be eternally grateful if someone could identify the tools from those listed on Park Tool's web site:

https://www.parktool.com/category/crank-bottom-bracket

There is play in the bottom bracket, which I understand is a sealed type, so I'm also looking to find out what replacement I should order. I realise I could do that when I get the cranks off and remove the cups, but I just wondered if anyone knew already. I'm happy to be corrected on the terminology I've used above.

Many thanks.
Last edited by keyboardmonkey on 29 Jan 2019, 2:25pm, edited 1 time in total.

Brucey
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Re: Bottom bracket - and tools - for 1986 Raleigh Road Ace

Postby Brucey » 29 Jan 2019, 2:25pm

you need the campagnolo/shimano fit spanners for this; HCW-4 and HCW-5 in park tool.

In practice a punch will release the lockring and a pin spanner ought to move the adjusting cup. The 'correct tool' is a bit stronger but not a lot, so if the adjusting cup is seized you need to use a hammer and punch or (better) to find a multi-pin spanner (some tools have all six pins) to work it.

The fixed cup will have flats that are (from memory) either 35mm or 36mm apart. You can measure this to be sure using Vernier calipers. I have seen many 36mm wrenches ruined by being used on 35mm cups. If you just want to remove the cup then lots of things can be made to shift it, including clamping the cup in a bench vice.

BTW the BB is an adjustable three-piece BB. I'd just adjust it and ride the bike; you probably don't need a replacement.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

keyboardmonkey
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Location: Yorkshire

Re: Bottom bracket - and tools - for 1986 Raleigh Road Ace

Postby keyboardmonkey » 29 Jan 2019, 3:09pm

Brucey wrote:you need the campagnolo/shimano fit spanners for this; HCW-4 and HCW-5 in park tool.
...

BTW the BB is an adjustable three-piece BB. I'd just adjust it and ride the bike; you probably don't need a replacement.

cheers


Thanks for the detailed and swift response as always, Brucey.

Just to help me a little further if you don't mind...

Are you saying I can leave the drive side cup (tool HCW-4) in place and try to slacken off the 6-notch near side lockring with the HCW-5?

But then would I need to use, say, the HCW-11 to then tighten the adjusting cup (turning which way???) then tighten up the lockring again with the HCW-5? Is that all I need to do in the first instance to see if that does the trick?

Please forgive my naivety with this stuff. I didn't do much fettling in the days when this bike was new!

Greystoke
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Re: Bottom bracket - and tools - for 1986 Raleigh Road Ace

Postby Greystoke » 29 Jan 2019, 3:36pm

The adjustment is on the non chainring side. Loosen the toothed outer cog ccw, tighten the inner and then the outer. Chances are it's ok.

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mjr
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Re: Bottom bracket - and tools - for 1986 Raleigh Road Ace

Postby mjr » 29 Jan 2019, 5:01pm

Won't a C-spanner fit that locking cog well enough?

And then it looks like a pin spanner for the adjustable cup. I've replaced a couple of adjustable cups with nut-fronted ones (but 24mm spanner, so still not a tool you'd normally take on every ride, but OK for shakedown rides) to make life easier, though.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Brucey
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Re: Bottom bracket - and tools - for 1986 Raleigh Road Ace

Postby Brucey » 29 Jan 2019, 6:12pm

1) remove the left crank

2) back the lockring off (making sure that the LH cup doesn't move)

3) wind the LH cup in a fraction using a peg spanner

4) retighten the lockring whilst holding the adjusting cup in position.

The above is 'the proper way'. By the roadside you can leave the crank in place and use a hammer (rock) and punch to achieve the same result. Usually the adjusting cup stays put or moves little (and in a predictable fashion) as the lockring is tightened.

FWIW if you build these BBs up carefully, using proper grease etc and you keep the water out, these BBs can last for many years.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

9494arnold
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Re: Bottom bracket - and tools - for 1986 Raleigh Road Ace

Postby 9494arnold » 29 Jan 2019, 6:27pm

I would think twice before subbing nutted cups, they tend to be thicker than your old school ones and might interfere with the cranks when re installed. What's the problem? If it's just loose, you only have to look at the left hand side initially, might just need a clean and regrease. The right hand side can be a bit of a struggle to get out, so if it's not nadgered , leave it in place, clean it with a rag and a screwdriver and re grease it. :)

keyboardmonkey
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Location: Yorkshire

Re: Bottom bracket - and tools - for 1986 Raleigh Road Ace

Postby keyboardmonkey » 29 Jan 2019, 9:42pm

Thanks ever so much for the responses. On reflection then I reckon I'll leave the fixed cup well alone.

So I'm thinking of getting these two tools:

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/par ... -prod17920

and

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/par ... -prod17509 (is this suitable???)

so that I can remove the spindle and bearings, clean up, pack with grease, reassemble and hope for the best. Sounds like a plan?

Edit: the bottom bracket on this bike hasn't been touched since new, so for the sake of a few quid I don't fancy using a C-spanner to try to shift the lockring.

Brucey
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Re: Bottom bracket - and tools - for 1986 Raleigh Road Ace

Postby Brucey » 29 Jan 2019, 9:46pm

they will work OK but a fixed pin spanner is usually a better tool.

The usual policy (of preferably using loose balls in place of clipped ones) applies.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

keyboardmonkey
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Joined: 1 Dec 2009, 5:05pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: Bottom bracket - and tools - for 1986 Raleigh Road Ace

Postby keyboardmonkey » 29 Jan 2019, 10:12pm

Brucey wrote:... a fixed pin spanner is usually a better tool.

cheers


Well, the two other options are cheaper, but it wasn’t clear whether I needed the red one or the green one. In fact, are either the right tool?

Brucey
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Re: Bottom bracket - and tools - for 1986 Raleigh Road Ace

Postby Brucey » 29 Jan 2019, 10:22pm

dunno, but IIRC the HCW-4 fixed cup tool's peg end ought to fit both campag and shimano adjustable cups. Nothing to stop you from measuring up before purchase, is there?

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

keyboardmonkey
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Location: Yorkshire

Re: Bottom bracket - and tools - for 1986 Raleigh Road Ace

Postby keyboardmonkey » 30 Jan 2019, 7:26am

Thanks to everyone. Sounds like I’ll just have a punt on the HCW-4 and HCW5 after all.

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Bottom bracket - and tools - for 1986 Raleigh Road Ace

Postby Brucey » 30 Jan 2019, 12:56pm

keyboardmonkey wrote:Thanks to everyone. Sounds like I’ll just have a punt on the HCW-4 and HCW5 after all.


if you measure up beforehand, it isn't much of a punt; the dimensions of the park tool HCW-4 are given.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

9494arnold
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Re: Bottom bracket - and tools - for 1986 Raleigh Road Ace

Postby 9494arnold » 30 Jan 2019, 1:09pm

I'd be inclined to use a punch for the Lockring , often have to use them on Adjustable Cups on Trike Back Axles because there's no room for the C spanner. Plus they have a nasty habit of slipping, and you will find the skin on your knuckles is no match for the frame of the bike. :shock:

And there are quite a few different pin spacing's available too, haven't looked at your Park Tool specs but it needs to be an adjustable pin spanner in my Humble Opinion. (You frame doesn't look to have been that neglected, if it had I'd warn about breaking the pins off the pin spanner: same nett result as the C spanner slipping )

rjb
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Re: Bottom bracket - and tools - for 1986 Raleigh Road Ace

Postby rjb » 31 Jan 2019, 1:23pm

Is this one of the models with propriety Raleigh threading. When did they adopt the normal cycle threads.
At the last count:- Focus Variado, Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, 2 Dawes Kingpins, Raleigh 20, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, On One Pompino, Longstaff trike conversion on a Falcon corsa. :D