Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
User avatar
bikes4two
Posts: 1038
Joined: 12 Jan 2010, 10:14pm
Location: SE Hampshire, UK

Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby bikes4two » 6 Feb 2019, 3:33pm

My trusty Dawes Galaxy (circa 1989) has suffered a seat stay fracture just below where the stay is brazed onto the down tube/top tube lug.

Is this sort of problem fixable and if so, what is the technique to be used i.e. brazing.welding (and what type of welding)? And is this work within the scope of a competant brazer or does it require specialist knowledge?

I realise the paint will need doing, but that's not an issue for me - I would just like my favourite bike of all time to be better again (sob sob).

Many thanks for your advice, best wishes, AlanM
Image Attachments
Bike2.jpg
bike.jpg
Last edited by bikes4two on 7 Feb 2019, 4:58am, edited 1 time in total.
Without my stoker, every trip would only be half a journey

User avatar
TrevA
Posts: 2191
Joined: 1 Jun 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Galay Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby TrevA » 6 Feb 2019, 3:53pm

Mercian quote £95 for fitting a new seat stay.

https://www.merciancycles.co.uk/renovations/

Vernon Barker quotes £90

http://www.vernonbarkercycles.co.uk/prices_frames.html


You would need a respray after. Mercian quote £150 and Vernon Barker £90 for a frame and fork respray.

You could weld it but it would be quite a ugly repair and may not work.
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com

Brucey
Posts: 36115
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Galay Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby Brucey » 6 Feb 2019, 6:09pm

if not going to a framebuilder there are a few methods including;

1) new top piece, complete. Cut out the old top plate complete. Manufacture a new top piece by turning it on a lathe, slash-cutting it, and boring it out. This can be welded or brazed to the top of the seat stay, and will have to be brazed to the side of the seat lug. It is best if the joint to the side of the seat lug is brazed using a low melting point braze metal, so that there is no danger of needlessly reflowing any of the nearby joints.


2) welding. If you 'V' out the full depth of the crack it can be filled with weld metal. Because there is braze-metal nearby (*), I don't recommend TIG welding. However it is usually possible to 'butter' the faces of the V using low heat input MIG in such a way as the damage caused by remelting the braze metal is acceptable. The weldment can be completed using MIG or TIG. Whether this ends up looking like a dog's breakfast or not depends on the skill of the welder and the amount of weld dressing that is done.

(*) the top eye is often covered by a plate that is simply brazed on, so there is this to worry about as well as the fillet to the seat lug itself.

This kind of damage isn't that unusual on touring bikes, I think because the stays see swaying loads when carrying panniers. It is more common if you habitually carry one pannier. If you want to reinforce the area so that this isn't so likely to happen again, it isn't a bad idea to weld or braze a reinforcement between the stays, near the seat lug. A simple cruciform 'X' piece in 14G steel would do it, and can act as a convenient mounting point for a canti or centrepull brake hanger too.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

alexnharvey
Posts: 836
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:39am

Re: Galay Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby alexnharvey » 6 Feb 2019, 6:18pm

Could you weld it without affecting the brazed joint I wonder.

John1970
Posts: 6
Joined: 6 Feb 2019, 6:18am

Re: Galay Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby John1970 » 6 Feb 2019, 6:33pm

MIG is low heat input (compared to gas welding) and unlike gas the welding can be done in short bursts with a cooling down interval, in order to avoid melting the brass brazing. An acceptable, but not totally invisible, repair would not be difficult for even a reasonable DIY welder. A localised MIG repair may also avoid the need for a complete frame repaint and could be touched up instead.

rjb
Posts: 3495
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 10:25am
Location: Somerset (originally 60/70's Plymouth)

Re: Galay Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby rjb » 6 Feb 2019, 6:47pm

Check your warranty. It may have a lifetime guarantee against such failure. My Super Galaxy tandem had an almost identical failure and despite being 9 years old was repaired and resprayed by Dawes. They collected the frame from my local dealer and delivered it back to me at home in the colour of my choice, from their current paint colours.
Whilst waiting to hear from them I carried on riding it having used a toe strap to hold the tubes together. It was a marathon design so had additional stays going to to rear triangle. :wink:
At the last count:- Focus Variado, Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin, Raleigh 20, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Longstaff trike conversion on a Falcon corsa. :D

User avatar
martin biggs
Posts: 732
Joined: 23 Apr 2007, 8:02am
Location: northamptonshire
Contact:

Re: Galay Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby martin biggs » 6 Feb 2019, 7:05pm

As others have said if original owner you might be able to claim under lifetime warranty

Or send it to who is just outside lee Cooper outside Coventry who can handle that frame repair easy enough for you at a fair and honest rate

landsurfer
Posts: 5029
Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm
Location: Rotherham

Re: Galay Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby landsurfer » 6 Feb 2019, 8:03pm

Open it up to 50% tube o.d. with a fine hacksaw blade .... a well worn one is best, takes longer, but cut is finer, then fill braze ....
Used X-Acto needle saw on mine and still going strong after over 1k miles in use.
However i have not used it to carry loads ... apart from my considerable self of course .. :)
Be a do'er, not a watcher. Be a Sceaphierde, not a Sheep.
Mike Hall, Jenny Graham .. Respect. .... The Road Goes On Forever !

Del
Posts: 1
Joined: 6 Feb 2019, 9:52pm

Re: Galay Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby Del » 6 Feb 2019, 10:07pm

12 months ago my 1989 Super Galaxy had both seat stays fail exactly like that. I bought it new but it never occurred to me that it had a lifetime guarantee! I bought a new Spa frame as a replacement.

User avatar
bikes4two
Posts: 1038
Joined: 12 Jan 2010, 10:14pm
Location: SE Hampshire, UK

Re: Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby bikes4two » 7 Feb 2019, 4:57am

1. Thank you all for your views and I now have a better understanding of the possible routes forward.

2. I am I think, the 3rd owner of the bike, so no possibility of a lifetime warranty claim.

3. The two frame repairers linked to are many miles from me down here in the Portsmouth area, but they serve as a good price guide as to what I might expect if I'm fortunate enough to find someone local (notice on Portsmouth CTC coming soon....)

4. I paid just £350 for this fully refurbished bike some 8 years ago (bought from Jerry Hoyte sometime of this forum) and have done thousands of miles of loaded tours, to say nothing of the local runs. It has been a wonderful work-horse and my most comfortable bike I've ever had the pleasure to ride, so I've had pay-back for sure and it is pleasing to know there are ways forward for repairs and even more riding.

5. Brucey's note about seeing this sort of problem on tourers is interesting, especially the point about riding with just one pannier. This is something I VERY RARELY do, but i have done on the odd occasion and the pannier in question affixes to the opposite side to the fractured seat stay -hmmm - max turning moments etc etc?

Thanks once again
Without my stoker, every trip would only be half a journey

brynpoeth
Posts: 11422
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby brynpoeth » 7 Feb 2019, 5:02am

Should one go to a cycle frame builder, or would a good non-specialist craftsperson be as good?
Could there be damage elsewhere that is not visible?
Entertainer, kidult, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life

hamster
Posts: 3214
Joined: 2 Feb 2007, 12:42pm

Re: Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby hamster » 7 Feb 2019, 11:41am

If you are in Portsmouth then you have Demon Frameworks and Rotrax nearby, both in Southampton.

Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 17388
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby Vorpal » 7 Feb 2019, 12:08pm

bikes4two wrote:5. Brucey's note about seeing this sort of problem on tourers is interesting, especially the point about riding with just one pannier. This is something I VERY RARELY do, but i have done on the odd occasion and the pannier in question affixes to the opposite side to the fractured seat stay -hmmm - max turning moments etc etc?

Thanks once again

I would think that it would have to be quite heavy; as in touring load heavy, for single pannierism to make any difference in failures like this.

I donæt have Brucey's experience wiht looking bicycle failures, but it is a type of failure one might expect on bikes that carry pannier loads.

IMO, how well the rack & load are typically secured, and how heavy a typical load is, would make more difference than whether one occasionally (or even habitually) carries a single pannier.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

9494arnold
Posts: 872
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 3:13pm

Re: Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby 9494arnold » 7 Feb 2019, 3:44pm

Silver Solder melts at a lower temperature than Brass/ Brazing so MIGHT be the way forward, problem is the tab of the seatstay is still attatched so if you try and repair you have to effectively bridge the gap to the rest of the stay which might be trickier than you think (the bit with Dawes Stamped on is just a metal filler, it's where the stay butts up to the lug behind it that's the critical bit. )
I am intrigued if anything has happened to cause the failure other than simply riding it? .
Welding is just nasty. It deserves better. And it might compromise the Joint at the Lug .

Brucey
Posts: 36115
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby Brucey » 7 Feb 2019, 3:49pm

I've seen several frames (of different makes) fail in this way, and the riders were known to have, or admitted to, routinely riding around with one heavily loaded pannier on board. I have also seen more than one Dawes galaxy fail in exactly this spot, so they may be more than averagely susceptible. The lateral stiffness of the rack (by itself i.e. without the top mounts) makes a big difference to the fatigue loadings that are imparted to the frame through the seat stays, but put it this way, there are very few racks with two mounts where you wouldn't immediately notice if one was loose or missing. With one pannier on, just going over bumps puts horrendous loads through the stays. Also note that if you tend to make the rack sway when pedalling it can be made worse and NB this kind of damage can still occur when the pannier load is even both sides.

On one occasion I sold a very nice vintage Claud Butler to a friend, and advised him not to use it with just one pannier. He carried on regardless, it broke, and of course muggins here was daft enough to help him fix it anyway.... :roll:

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~