Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

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Brucey
Posts: 32274
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby Brucey » 7 Feb 2019, 4:10pm

this picture shows how the top eye is often done;

Image

a plate is brazed over the slash cut, dressed, and then the stay is brazed to the side of the seat lug. One of the risks with this method is that the sharp end of the stay is liable be overheated. It is certainly heated twice over and this may embrittle it.

Fittings like these

Image

are easier to work with and there is less danger of embrittlement. They are a little heavier though.


One option for the OPs frame is to replace the top eyes with fittings of this ilk both sides.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

9494arnold
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Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 3:13pm

Re: Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby 9494arnold » 7 Feb 2019, 6:39pm

Just been on the dreaded fleabay, there's a scruffy frame without forks for £40 (I personally wouldn't touch a frame without the forks) and there's 2 full bikes around the £100 mark.
Which is what you would be spending on the repair, before paint. And who is to say the other side won't go after you repair that side?
There's nothing wrong with Galaxies ,they have a good reputation , the wife has a ladies model but they are mid range plus, you have to ask is it worth repairing ? It is catch 22 .
This probably doesn't help you at all.
It's the Worcester St Johns Cycle Jumble this Saturday. .."......... :D

yostumpy
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Joined: 29 Oct 2010, 6:56pm

Re: Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby yostumpy » 7 Feb 2019, 8:19pm

I don't think the question of 'is it worth repairing' ever came into it. The chap wants to repair his favourite bike, and preserve, and add too, the memories attached . I commend him for it.

alexnharvey
Posts: 484
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:39am

Re: Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby alexnharvey » 7 Feb 2019, 8:35pm

I wonder if the wrapover style stay actually adds any strength, could it be done as part of this repair, thereby strengthening both sides for the future?

rmurphy195
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Joined: 20 May 2011, 11:23am
Location: South Birmingham

Re: Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby rmurphy195 » 8 Feb 2019, 3:52pm

Hi Bikes4two

I can understand your comments ref favourite bike of all time - the frame (bent) and forks of my trusty '93 galaxy are still in the shed, stripped of all parts, 'cos I couldn't bear to part with it, it's part of my history!

But even in my late 60's I took the difficult decision to move on and get something more up to date - though with a traditional look - and I haven't regretted it.

The "new" bike is different, and has needed some fettling (as did the Galaxy at first) to get it working the way I want, but now it has become part of "me" as it were. BTW some of the bits came from the Galaxy (Saddle, mudguards, rack) so it kinda lives on.

When we move house the banana-shaped Galaxy frame will have its place in the Garage!
Scott Purgatory MTB, Brompton, Condor Heritage, creaky joints and grey hair
""You know you're getting old when it's easier to ride a bike than to get on and off it" - quote from observant jogger !

Ivor Tingting
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Joined: 10 Mar 2009, 9:57pm

Re: Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby Ivor Tingting » 8 Feb 2019, 4:34pm

I suspect the OP doesn't have a welder or even any experience in welding so what's the point about going on about it in depth to a level that probably only a competent experienced welder or bike frame builder could make a good repair. I would have asked first before going off on one. I suspect bike tubing is quite thin so as a welder you need to be quite careful and suitably skilled not to burn a hole in the tubing or distort it what ever type of welding you use.

If the OP is desperate to keep this bike but doesn't want to pay a frame builder to repair, check the rest of the frame and then respray might i suggest he considers enrolling on a welding course at his local college? I did this a few years ago when I was rebuilding a "classic" car. The course was about £100 for one night a week for 10 weeks. The prices have probably likely increased considerably since as it was about 10-15 years ago. The tutor was more than willing to weld my Important metal bits where my expertise and experience was not yet sufficient. It was great fun. The result I can now weld properly. On the few occasions I have needed to weld something it has been done properly and has saved me a tidy sum. I have Mig welder which cost me about £150 back then then there is the cost of PPE and gas. But I guess you have to be into mechanical stuff to sign up to a course. You could even sign up to a frame building course but they are expensive. I think Enigma might have been doing them a few years ago so probably not that cost effective and certainly a non starter if money is tight or you simply aren't interested in learning to build a bike frame.

Alternatively pay the going rate to have the frame repaired at a frame builder. You can pack frames up in a frame or small bike box and send them to a repairer. Boxes available from most bike shops.

Or gracefully retire the old boy and get another Galaxy or a totally new steed. Nothing lasts for ever. I am thinking if this stay has fractured what other weaknesses have developed in this old frame? Time to buy new?

I hope this helps as a practical analysis of how to solve this problem with your bike.
"Zat is ze reel prowoking qwestion Mr Paxman." - Peer Steinbruck, German Finance Minister 31/03/2009.

Brucey
Posts: 32274
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby Brucey » 8 Feb 2019, 5:24pm

the point is that there are folk (some with -or know others with- welding equipment and who know how to use it) but who have no idea how a bike frame is put together, or what parts you can just buy ready-made. Knowing what you are dealing with is half the battle.

More top eyes here
http://ceeway.com/Top%20Eyes.htm
not all of which may be available

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ivor Tingting
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Joined: 10 Mar 2009, 9:57pm

Re: Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby Ivor Tingting » 8 Feb 2019, 6:19pm

There's a 21 inch Dawes Super Galaxy, excellent condition, just gone up for sale on the classifieds. £250. I would put yours out to grass and get this one if of course you want another Galaxy and it's the right size.
"Zat is ze reel prowoking qwestion Mr Paxman." - Peer Steinbruck, German Finance Minister 31/03/2009.

alexnharvey
Posts: 484
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:39am

Re: Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby alexnharvey » 8 Feb 2019, 6:31pm

Ivor Tingting wrote:so what's the point about going on about it in depth to a level that probably only a competent experienced welder or bike frame builder could make a good repair.


See title of sub-forum in conjunction with title of thread.

Or to put it another way

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cDLZqe735k

landsurfer
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Location: Rotherham

Re: Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby landsurfer » 8 Feb 2019, 6:41pm

There are no end of good quality frames, secondhand, available on the inter web for probably less than the frame repair.
I have recently bought a late Raleigh Record Ace frame, some scratches in the paintwork, but free of internal corrosion within the main tubes ....(fibre optic endoprobe, £9.99 Amazon ) ... £40 ....
Keep the damaged frame, and put it on the wall in the house ...
RSF.
Audax UK.
The road goes on forever.

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bikes4two
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Location: SE Hampshire, UK

Re: Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby bikes4two » 9 Feb 2019, 11:05am

Thanks once again for all the inputs.

Brucey - you mention that you've seen this type of failure in Dawes Galaxy before - out of interest, is this in frames built in the UK or after construction went overseas (or both)?

My frame is now 30yrs old (of which I have had it 10yrs and no idea on previous history) and showing signs of constant use including nigh on 5000 miles of loaded touring from me. I do know that a replacement seat stay will cost around £95 plus of course any paint work therein. I don't think that sort of money is best put into a 30yr old steel frame - I'd rather invest it towards another frame.

Thanks Hampster for the info re Demon Frameworks and Rotrax.

However, on ringing around locally, I have been pointed by one cycle shop to a gent operating out of a small garage in Southsea who I visited a couple of days ago. The gent concerned is 'old school' for sure and in discussion I heard the things that have given me enough confidence to leave the frame with him next week. As I said to him, I'm not looking for a 'pretty' fix but something functional, which given the nature of the seat stay breakage is an appropriate level of expectation - time will tell. 

Obviously the 'worked area' will require re-painting and I can either get a matching tin of aerosol paint from a place in Portsmouth I use, or if the repair looks good enough to keep the bike going for another few years, maybe even a full powder coat?

If all else fails, another Dawes Galaxy then?
Without my stoker, every trip would only be half a journey

fastpedaller
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Location: Norfolk

Re: Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby fastpedaller » 9 Feb 2019, 11:31am

bikes4two wrote:
Obviously the 'worked area' will require re-painting and I can either get a matching tin of aerosol paint from a place in Portsmouth I use, or if the repair looks good enough to keep the bike going for another few years, maybe even a full powder coat?

If all else fails, another Dawes Galaxy then?

Aerosol only (generally) applies a very thin coating, and is messy to use. Maybe a colour match with some Humbrol enamel? Paint on some primer, then undercoat (rubbing down with wet/dry between, then brush one the Humbrol. Should be able to get a good finish (and certainly rust-preventing). You could even use a contrasting colour, and paint , say, the top 6 inches of seat tube, and stays - 'modernise' the paint scheme :lol: The trick with brush painting is cleanliness eg don't rub down and then paint with lots of dust around!, leave 'til next day. and clean with panel wipe or other alcohol between coats. Oh.. and try do do it when the temp is at least 10deg C

Canuk
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Re: Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby Canuk » 9 Feb 2019, 11:42am

I've done a successful home repair on a 1970s Holdsworth with exactly the same failure. I did pretty much what was suggested up thread, V cut into the affected area and weld fill, letting the joint cool down in between fills. With relatively little welding experience (a three day course at college 30 years ago) I think I did a pretty reasonable job. It wasn't the prettiest repair but once its filed and sanded it back to paint it was difficult to tell it from the other side. Whole process took about 3HRS. I rode it regularly for about 8 years fully laden afterwards and ended up giving it to a neighbour for his shop run. AFAIK it's still on the road. And I've been able to use the skills learned in various projects around the house.

IME steel frames are just as prone to failure as aluminium or carbon ones, especially steel frames used in inclement weather and not scrupulously cleaned and dried after each ride. I have a cupboard full of them under the stairs. I would definitely try a competent welder first before making a long hike up country to a frame builder.

Brucey
Posts: 32274
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby Brucey » 9 Feb 2019, 4:57pm

bikes4two wrote:...Brucey - you mention that you've seen this type of failure in Dawes Galaxy before - out of interest, is this in frames built in the UK or after construction went overseas (or both)?


mostly UK built frames but they are all older and many of them have seen a hard life.

My frame is now 30yrs old (of which I have had it 10yrs and no idea on previous history) and showing signs of constant use including nigh on 5000 miles of loaded touring from me. I do know that a replacement seat stay will cost around £95 plus of course any paint work therein. I don't think that sort of money is best put into a 30yr old steel frame - I'd rather invest it towards another frame.


you don't need a new seat stay; you need a new top eye (or better yet a matching pair; the other one will have seen some weird loads and may well be weakened too). If you do the prep work it will take someone about fifteen minutes with a gas torch to braze the parts together.

BTW one of the advantages of the weld repair method (rather than brazing) is that the amount of painting required afterwards is normally very much less.

FWIW a well-made (and well specified) frame ought to do ten times the mileage without great danger of failure. In the spectrum of 'well made steel frames' the Dawes frames (like a lot of mass-produced ones) tended to be 'average or poor'; at various times frames often went out of the factory with poorly fitted parts that were not very well put together.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

LittleGreyCat
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Re: Galaxy Steel Frame repair advice please

Postby LittleGreyCat » 10 Feb 2019, 12:33pm

Mildly intrigued that Galaxy frames are going for £40 or more on eBay.
I paid around that for a complete bike around 2008/9 and the seller was surprised to get that much.
I know of a complete (for selected values of complete) bike with an alleged seized in bottom bracket but have no idea of the size, nor if the owner would be willing to sell.
I will mention the possible value, though.