Help identify this bike

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
Ke1th
Posts: 32
Joined: 11 Jul 2018, 7:54pm

Help identify this bike

Postby Ke1th » 17 Feb 2019, 10:41am

Hi,bought this locally recently. Although badged as a Rourke I didn't think it was, This was confirmed by Rourke when I gave them a frame number. Can anybody help identify it?
It has over bb cable guides and as accurately as I can measure a 25mm seat post.
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Ke1th
Posts: 32
Joined: 11 Jul 2018, 7:54pm

Re: Help identify this bike

Postby Ke1th » 17 Feb 2019, 10:43am

Forgot to add frame number is E8460. There is a J stamped on the bottom bracket shell also

Brucey
Posts: 32780
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Help identify this bike

Postby Brucey » 17 Feb 2019, 1:00pm

I think maybe the main frame and the fork don't belong together; one is nutted and the other is an AK fitment, and the reach looks wildly different. The frame has no TT guides, band-on gear levers, nutted brake fittings, a pressed steel seat lug, and gear cable braze-ons on the top of the BB shell (is the FD guide braze-on still there or has it been there but been removed?). It also has 'long' pattern dropouts with no mudguard eyes. All these things suggest a 1970s frame to me.

I can't think of a good quality tubeset (that also has a standard outside diameter) which would use a 25.0mm seat pin unless there is a sleeve inside the frame or something.

I have a feeling that the 'frame number' may be a bottom bracket shell marking from the manufacturer; it sounds a very familiar number to me.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ke1th
Posts: 32
Joined: 11 Jul 2018, 7:54pm

Re: Help identify this bike

Postby Ke1th » 17 Feb 2019, 2:37pm

Thanks for the input Brucey, the FD guide braze on is still there.

PT1029
Posts: 583
Joined: 16 Apr 2012, 9:20pm

Re: Help identify this bike

Postby PT1029 » 17 Feb 2019, 5:12pm

Seat post diameter. Take the seat post out, the diameter should be stamped somewhere near the bottom of the seat post. Butted 531 frame tube (as per 531 sticker photo) should be 27.2mm diameter, or possibly/much less likely 26.8mm diameter.
The frame lug would not clamp a 25mm diameter post without a shim.
Also the 531 sticker is TI (tube investments), I think TI sold Reynolds tubing at some point (I forget the date), which might help, but it was I think a long time after Brucey's guess of 1970's (which looks quite likely to me).
Rear gear/chainset/rear dropouts/lack of top tube brazed on cable guides could easily be 1970's.

Brake levers/calipers/seat post (its aero)/gear levers/F mech are well after 1970's.
Wheels are also post 1970's (aero F rim, 1980s(90's?) rear rim).
Handle bar stem looks like a 1980's (I think) Shimano aero stem (handle bar clamp bolt accessed from under cover at the top of the stem

Brucey
Posts: 32780
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Help identify this bike

Postby Brucey » 17 Feb 2019, 5:49pm

Date-wise the components are all over the place and are probably relatively meaningless in terms of dating the bike.

The NR crankset and RD could hail from ~1967 to about 1984 and will be date marked. The seat pin and FD look like campag victory from the mid-1980s. The brake calipers, gear levers, brake levers look like shimano 1055 (105 SC) parts that are from the late 1980s, but will also be date-marked. The pedals deserve a special place in hell; they are easily the worst pair of pedals I have ever seen on a NR chainset (I say NR but it has mismatched rings; the outside chainring looks like a SR one).

BTW the gear levers could be 7s or 8s. In friction mode they will shift anything; my guess is that they are set in friction mode right now.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ke1th
Posts: 32
Joined: 11 Jul 2018, 7:54pm

Re: Help identify this bike

Postby Ke1th » 17 Feb 2019, 6:45pm

Some great information,thanks guys. Seat post is a campagnolo brevit and does indeed have 26.8 stamped on it.
Shifters are in friction mode. Pedals have been moved to the bin.

thirdcrank
Posts: 28062
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Help identify this bike

Postby thirdcrank » 17 Feb 2019, 6:53pm

On the subject of the fork, I have a vague recollection of somebody advertising replacement forks probably in the comic. Available in any finish you wanted, so long as it was entirely chromed. FWIW, brevet isn't a model, it means the design or name is registered.

Ke1th
Posts: 32
Joined: 11 Jul 2018, 7:54pm

Re: Help identify this bike

Postby Ke1th » 17 Feb 2019, 9:50pm

The rear free wheel is a screw on shimano 600 12/18 :shock: I will need some lower ratios than this I'm afraid. Would an 8speed shimano 14/28 be a straight swap?

Brucey
Posts: 32780
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Help identify this bike

Postby Brucey » 17 Feb 2019, 10:08pm

8s is normally on a 130mm (or 135mm) wide hub. If you have 6s or 7s then the hub will probably be 126mm wide. The frame is old enough that it was probably 120mm when it was built; if so it will need to be reset (again) to 130mm. However a more fundamental problem is that whilst there are such things as 8s freewheels (that screw on) you will probably need to respace/redish/re-axle the rear hub to fit one, and the chances of the axle breaking in service are pretty good; way higher than with 6s.

99.99% of bikes running 8s or more are using a cassette hub.

I would suggest that you get a 6s or 7s freewheel in 14-28, together with a new chain (if you re-use an old worn one it will wear the sprockets out double-quick), and see how you go with that. Anything else is liable to get expensive very quickly.

Your future choices are (if you want indexed gearing) shaped by the gear levers that you have, unless you want to replace them too. You will need a different RD if you want reliable indexed gearing.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

thirdcrank
Posts: 28062
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Help identify this bike

Postby thirdcrank » 17 Feb 2019, 10:21pm

What are the capacities of the Nuovo Record rear mech? I've a Super Record (black lettering and supposedd to have some titanium in there somewhere) and depending on the make of freewheel it can struggle to get onto the smallest sprocket of a 6spd block. Also, it will cope with a 28T big sprocket but I've a vague memory that the NR was advertised as 26T max.

fastpedaller
Posts: 1818
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Help identify this bike

Postby fastpedaller » 17 Feb 2019, 10:53pm

thirdcrank wrote:What are the capacities of the Nuovo Record rear mech? I've a Super Record (black lettering and supposedd to have some titanium in there somewhere) and depending on the make of freewheel it can struggle to get onto the smallest sprocket of a 6spd block. Also, it will cope with a 28T big sprocket but I've a vague memory that the NR was advertised as 26T max.


I don't know about the capacities, but IMHO (I'll get ready to duck from flying missiles :lol: ) there are many rear mechs far superior to old design Campag - The Sun Tour slant parallelogram patented design showed how good a gear change with a better basic design could operate. No 'over-changing' and correction to achieve a good change! I have to say the materials and fine tolerances of the Campag almost made up for its design limitations, but the way forward was there for all to see.

Ke1th
Posts: 32
Joined: 11 Jul 2018, 7:54pm

Re: Help identify this bike

Postby Ke1th » 17 Feb 2019, 11:04pm

Ill take the easy route and stay six speed. Would like to go to 28 if possible though.

thirdcrank
Posts: 28062
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Help identify this bike

Postby thirdcrank » 18 Feb 2019, 7:16am

I'm not trying to glorify that type of mech, just noting that AFAIK its design dates from the days when six speed was a novelty and 26T was a huge sprocket for racing. Those capacities need to be considered here.

FWIW, I bought mine in 1980, thanks to Lord Edmund Davies (bless him) and Lloydy's heavily discounted mail order business.

tatanab
Posts: 3632
Joined: 8 Feb 2007, 12:37pm

Re: Help identify this bike

Postby tatanab » 18 Feb 2019, 7:25am

thirdcrank wrote:What are the capacities of the Nuovo Record rear mech?
26 T sprocket and 26T overall capacity according to http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/Cam ... 14551.html I have one in use with a 28 rear sprocket in a 14-28 . When I set this up with the usual 52/42 chainset that was really too much to ask and I had to have it so that in small/small the chain ran slack. It was overgeared for me anyway so I have changed it 47/42. One thing I notice, with only a 5T difference at the front (sort of a half step setup perhaps) changing is sublime.