Are these clones or genuine?

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
Bonefishblues
Posts: 7168
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Are these clones or genuine?

Postby Bonefishblues » 2 Mar 2019, 8:23am

Just wandering eBay looking at fettling my daughter's bike, and specifically at the rear mech.

As per title - this appears to be an unbadged Acera, but is it the real item, just debadged from the back door of the factory, or is it a copy?

Anyone got a view?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RD-M390-Deor ... 0005.m1851

Brucey
Posts: 36822
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Are these clones or genuine?

Postby Brucey » 2 Mar 2019, 8:59am

could be anything really. The magic word 'shimano' is missing from the description and it says that 'the colours can vary'. It also claims aluminium but in fact there are many steel and plastic parts in the real thing. It might be that you are going to get Shimano RD-M390 acera (OEM version) but it might not. The photos are of a genuine RD-M390 RD but the images have been doctored to remove the logos. It isn't a deore mech and it isn't a shadow mech either.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PH
Posts: 8142
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: Are these clones or genuine?

Postby PH » 2 Mar 2019, 9:03am

Looks a bit odd that it doesen't have the branding, but at the bottom of the page there are others around the same price that do. Like this one
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RD-M390-9-27 ... 0005.m1851

Though as you note that number RD-M390 is Acera rather than the Deore claimed in your link and the UK price is around £15.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 7168
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Are these clones or genuine?

Postby Bonefishblues » 2 Mar 2019, 9:19am

Brucey wrote:could be anything really...

Frankly that's not how I expect you to begin a post.

Go away and have a long hard conversation with yourself :lol:

Bonefishblues
Posts: 7168
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Are these clones or genuine?

Postby Bonefishblues » 2 Mar 2019, 9:23am

PH wrote:Looks a bit odd that it doesen't have the branding, but at the bottom of the page there are others around the same price that do. Like this one
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RD-M390-9-27 ... 0005.m1851

Though as you note that number RD-M390 is Acera rather than the Deore claimed in your link and the UK price is around £15.

I know, it's interesting that the one I linked is the cheapest of the bunch.

My instinct (and in the frankly scandalous absence of any detailed knowledge of the Chinese cloning marketplace from Brucey :roll:) is that it's too complex an item to be worth trying to clone, so is likely to be off the proper production line.

This syndrome doesn't seem to extend to mechs from further up the Shimano range, BTW.

reohn2
Posts: 37486
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Are these clones or genuine?

Postby reohn2 » 2 Mar 2019, 9:51am

Check out the sellers feedback 98% and 97% aren't good
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

MikeF
Posts: 3810
Joined: 11 Nov 2012, 9:24am
Location: On the borders of the four South East Counties

Re: Are these clones or genuine?

Postby MikeF » 2 Mar 2019, 9:53am

Bonefishblues wrote:
PH wrote:Looks a bit odd that it doesen't have the branding, but at the bottom of the page there are others around the same price that do. Like this one
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RD-M390-9-27 ... 0005.m1851

Though as you note that number RD-M390 is Acera rather than the Deore claimed in your link and the UK price is around £15.

I know, it's interesting that the one I linked is the cheapest of the bunch.

My instinct (and in the frankly scandalous absence of any detailed knowledge of the Chinese cloning marketplace from Brucey :roll:) is that it's too complex an item to be worth trying to clone, so is likely to be off the proper production line.

This syndrome doesn't seem to extend to mechs from further up the Shimano range, BTW.
I'm not sure why you are asking the question as you seem to have more insight to this than the rest of us. If it looks too cheap then it's probably too cheap for a reason, but at that price buy one and let us know what you find.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

MikeF
Posts: 3810
Joined: 11 Nov 2012, 9:24am
Location: On the borders of the four South East Counties

Re: Are these clones or genuine?

Postby MikeF » 2 Mar 2019, 10:03am

reohn2 wrote:Check out the sellers feedback 98% and 97% aren't good
And this seller is selling all sorts of items, sourced from where?
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

thelawnet
Posts: 2282
Joined: 27 Aug 2010, 12:56am

Re: Are these clones or genuine?

Postby thelawnet » 2 Mar 2019, 10:34am

Fwiw when I was in search of a (non-Shadow, Shadow fouled the frame I was fitting it to) rear derailleur last year in Indonesia there were lots and lots of rd-m390s that were dirt cheap. I paid £3 and there were multiple retailers to choose from.

I don't remember thinking 'that must be fake', though it was noticeably cheaper than other options. I fitted it ok though I didn't ride it.

It was to replace some old Chinese derailleur which was horrid and noticeably looked poor quality . The rd-m390 looked like genuine Shimano and indexed just fine, unlike the very cheap thing I had in before it.

My opinion is that it's almost certainly not fake as it feels quality and you wouldn't fake an old cheap derailleur in high quality (though I didn't look THAT closely) for what cannot be more than £1.50 at wholesale. I did not however ride it or do more than fit and install it, as the person's bike had a number of other issues so I don't think it has since been ridden.

There are basically two explanations: (a) it's genuine and it's fine (b) it's genuine and it's faulty or otherwise reject

I don't think Shimano make stuff in China - parts I've seen have carried made in Malaysia, Indonesia and made in Japan labels. I don't recall for this , Malaysia maybe? Anyway it seems that large quantity escaped by unofficial means and were sold off for pennies. Probably they are quite ok.

thelawnet
Posts: 2282
Joined: 27 Aug 2010, 12:56am

Re: Are these clones or genuine?

Postby thelawnet » 2 Mar 2019, 10:52am

Here are the Indonesian listings

https://m.bukalapak.com/products?source ... 5D=Rd-m390

60,000rp is around £3

Most just say Shimano rd-m390

But this one
https://m.bukalapak.com/p/sepeda/drivet ... 5D=Rd-m390

Says 'unbranded resembles rd-m390'

'function and quality quite ok.
For 8 and 9 speed'

This one says


https://m.bukalapak.com/p/sepeda/part-g ... 5D=Rd-m390

'There is no writing [brand] on the physical product' (and from looking at feedback for others it seems in some cases that the photos have the writing and the actual product sent out does not)

Does that mean it's not Shimano?

Maybe yes, maybe no.

I have a seller who sells tyres from the Schwalbe factory (in Indonesia) with various defects, one being missing labels. There is no chance at all the assorted tyres he sells are anything other than made by Schwalbe.

So is this a batch of Shimano without labels due to error? Or dumped without finishing? Or a repro to earn £1 a piece? Who knows . How much does a third party rear derailleur cost anyway? I would have thought more than this.

At some point I will examine the actual rd I fitted more closely and take photos.
Last edited by thelawnet on 2 Mar 2019, 10:58am, edited 2 times in total.

Brucey
Posts: 36822
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Are these clones or genuine?

Postby Brucey » 2 Mar 2019, 10:58am

shimano have factories in China

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

reohn2
Posts: 37486
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Are these clones or genuine?

Postby reohn2 » 2 Mar 2019, 2:53pm

-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

thelawnet
Posts: 2282
Joined: 27 Aug 2010, 12:56am

Re: Are these clones or genuine?

Postby thelawnet » 2 Mar 2019, 2:57pm

reohn2 wrote:This one looks legit:- https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RD-M390-9-27 ... 0005.m1851


Can't tell from the photo as it's from China and the goods may not match the picture.

User avatar
NATURAL ANKLING
Posts: 11219
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
Location: English Riviera

Re: Are these clones or genuine?

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 2 Mar 2019, 3:10pm

Hi,
Shimano make parts in all countries that have been mentioned including India.
But don't use India made Shimano chains!
On eBay you are find very poor descriptions of even decent parts, how they sell the stuff I'll never know.
Typical example Was searching for something that has perished on my car.
On eBay, eventually found one at a third of the price, the market in the description was really rubbish.
But I persevered Despite them saying not company policy to do buy it now and have to arrange own postage.
Eventually I thought the issue by making an offer including the postage price to them, they instantly sent me a message saying they're sending them out now.
They have sold thousands of items on eBay and have 100% feedback.
I would say that the part you posted it's probably genuine just very poor marketing.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

tmac100
Posts: 48
Joined: 13 May 2016, 1:47pm

Re: Are these clones or genuine?

Postby tmac100 » 2 Mar 2019, 4:01pm

Buyer beware. In 2006 I bought a Shimano RD on Ebay. It fell apart in outback Australia and went into my rear wheel breaking 2 of the 48 spokes and bending others. I had to hitch-hike over 700 km to a town that had a bike shop. Fixed the wheel (which was still pretty straight) and put on a new Shimano RD.

Since then I have used that same RD across Australia (Perth to Sydney) and more. Moral of the story? Things fall apart, but you never know when that will happen. NOW I buy new RDs and genuine ones - same for chains, etc. Tyres too. Not sure if saving a few dollars/euros/pounds is worth the aggravation. Up to you to decide, but for me and doing 1000+ unsupported trips, it is not worth the risk...