Riding out of the saddle - unexpected issues.

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LittleGreyCat
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Riding out of the saddle - unexpected issues.

Postby LittleGreyCat » 2 Mar 2019, 7:17pm

On my Mountain Bike I've always been able to get out of the saddle on steep inclines, although I try to sit down and spin.
On my new Touring Bike, which I am still learning to ride effectively, I tried riding out of the saddle but the pedal seem to come so high at the top of the stroke that I couldn't confidently keep pedalling.

At first I though I might have longer cranks, but I've measured them and the ones on my MB and from the centre of the BB to the centre of the pedal is 175mm (approx) in both cases.

My next thought is that the bars are set lower in relation to the BB.
I've lined the bikes up side by side and the bars and saddles seem to be at the same height and same distance apart so this all seems very strange.
Given that I can cycle comfortably seated on both bikes I assumed that I could do the same out of the saddle.

Possibly something subtle in the geometry, but I am currently wondering what is going on.

Just thought - it might be the difference made by the bar ends.
Will have to do a bit of investigative cycling; just not tonight.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Riding out of the saddle - unexpected issues.

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 2 Mar 2019, 7:26pm

Hi,
Width of bars?
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busb
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Re: Riding out of the saddle - unexpected issues.

Postby busb » 2 Mar 2019, 7:28pm

Does your tourer have drop bars? I can't ride out of the saddle holding onto the drops but can on the tops or hoods.

LittleGreyCat
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Re: Riding out of the saddle - unexpected issues.

Postby LittleGreyCat » 2 Mar 2019, 7:34pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Width of bars?


450mm outside to outside at the hoods.

470mm outside to outside rear end of the drops

The bars have an "interesting" shape at the top - not just straight across then straight down. Brand is FSA Wing.

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foxyrider
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Re: Riding out of the saddle - unexpected issues.

Postby foxyrider » 2 Mar 2019, 7:34pm

Whilst it's similar, the position can be different for a number of reasons. Reach, BB height, frame geometry.

Not quite sure I can envision your particular problem as described, if I get out of the saddle my legs move the same whichever bike it is. That may be different in relation to the handlebar height but physically the leg does exactly the same. Well it has to, it's a fixed length :lol:
Convention? what's that then?
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LittleGreyCat
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Re: Riding out of the saddle - unexpected issues.

Postby LittleGreyCat » 2 Mar 2019, 7:54pm

busb wrote:Does your tourer have drop bars? I can't ride out of the saddle holding onto the drops but can on the tops or hoods.


Seem to have lost my first attempt.

This is riding on the tops and the hoods.

I am so inflexible that I can't even start to imagine trying to ride out of the saddle with my hands on the drops.

Perhaps if I could do a full forward bend and touch the floor with my hands with my legs straight, then I could get my posterior high enough in the air to attempt this.
However this guy ain't for bending!

mattsccm
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Re: Riding out of the saddle - unexpected issues.

Postby mattsccm » 2 Mar 2019, 8:50pm

Bear in mind that riding out of the saddle is mostly done on the hoods. On the drops is for sprinting hard and is rarely done uphill. Marco Pantani did it a lot.
Hands flat on the tops isn't normal. Yes I know some people do it but its not a good idea and is usually a sign of a less experienced rider on one of those who have to be different. Exceptions may apply. :wink:
Technique is the issue here. Practice is needed.

Samuel D
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Re: Riding out of the saddle - unexpected issues.

Postby Samuel D » 2 Mar 2019, 10:51pm

Although I don’t fully understand your problem with the pedals seeming to come too high – has that got to do with leaning the new bicycle less from side to side while out of the saddle? – I know that bicycles with even small differences in the front-end geometry feel profoundly different when riding out of the saddle. This is just about the only time that stem length makes a major difference to handling, for example. Honking also feels different with a load on the back.

Different does not mean bad. After doing 400 km in two days with a ~5 kg saddlebag, I nearly crashed the first time I got out of the saddle on my first ride without the bag! And yet I preferred the handling without a saddlebag.

You may just need to ride the bicycle a bit until you get used to how it feels and behaves. Presumably the point of your new bicycle is precisely that it behaves differently from your other one.

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foxyrider
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Re: Riding out of the saddle - unexpected issues.

Postby foxyrider » 2 Mar 2019, 11:12pm

LittleGreyCat wrote:
busb wrote:Does your tourer have drop bars? I can't ride out of the saddle holding onto the drops but can on the tops or hoods.


Seem to have lost my first attempt.

This is riding on the tops and the hoods.

I am so inflexible that I can't even start to imagine trying to ride out of the saddle with my hands on the drops.

Perhaps if I could do a full forward bend and touch the floor with my hands with my legs straight, then I could get my posterior high enough in the air to attempt this.
However this guy ain't for bending!


Just checked - despite being a bit stiff after today's ride, yep can still touch floor with straight legs! Other than the stiffness that's as good as i've ever been, i'm actually quite chuffed that Grandad can manage that!

Probably helps that i've got long arms mind :lol:
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

scottg
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Re: Riding out of the saddle - unexpected issues.

Postby scottg » 3 Mar 2019, 12:32am

There is a learning cliff to riding standing up, then learning stand in the drops,
then learning to shift a bar-con with your knee whilst standing.
When you can do those, then it is time for a fixed gear.

I put Lauterwasser bars on a Ellis Briggs, it took a few rides to get used standing
with that combo. Practice :)
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gregoryoftours
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Re: Riding out of the saddle - unexpected issues.

Postby gregoryoftours » 3 Mar 2019, 1:22am

Is your new tourer the one that you are wondering about swapping stem and spacers around on? Just a thought but the bars might in actual fact be too high on that bike for you to stand on the pedals. They do look pretty high to me. Try lowering them and see if it makes any difference. If you bars are too high it's a bit like a T-Rex trying to ride a bike, you can't pull upwards on the bars like you need to because they are too high and in front of you. It can also mean that you can't shift your centre of gravity forward over the front of the bike when the gradient increases, which can feel very strange. Also when standing on the pedals with drops you really want to be on the hoods, not the flat part of the bar that's level with the stem. Even if the bars on your 2 bikes are about the same height, if your mountain bike has a higher bottom bracket then it will make the bars effectively lower relative to your foot position when riding the bike. Also when you say 'about' the same height, a cm or two can make a very noticeable difference. It would be a good idea to post pictures of both of your bikes, taken from the same height and zoomed in from a distance to make perspective as least confusing as possible.
Last edited by gregoryoftours on 3 Mar 2019, 1:31am, edited 3 times in total.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Riding out of the saddle - unexpected issues.

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 3 Mar 2019, 1:24am

Hi,
LittleGreyCat wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Width of bars?


450mm outside to outside at the hoods.

470mm outside to outside rear end of the drops

The bars have an "interesting" shape at the top - not just straight across then straight down. Brand is FSA Wing.

Well mtb bars are 560 - 620 +, drops are toping out at 460 centres and maybe narrower at the hoods..............which is the only place to ride out the saddle.
I have my hoods set at the same reach as my mtb trainers to the ends of the bar end extensions.
So with all other things being equal, my drop and reach on the hoods is the same as mtb trainers.
Standing is on the hoods or at the ends of the bar end extensions.

Standing on the tops of drops on the straight bit fixed to stem................that will hamper you something rotten.
Is that what you are doing?
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gaz
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Re: Riding out of the saddle - unexpected issues.

Postby gaz » 3 Mar 2019, 9:12am

mattsccm wrote:Technique is the issue here. Practice is needed.

Nicole Frýbortová is quite good at this riding out of the saddle thing :wink: .

NickJP
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Re: Riding out of the saddle - unexpected issues.

Postby NickJP » 4 Mar 2019, 9:11pm

On the brake hoods is where your hands should be placed while riding out of the saddle.

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mig
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Re: Riding out of the saddle - unexpected issues.

Postby mig » 4 Mar 2019, 9:30pm

175 cranks seem long for a touring bike, especially as your user name implies you're not so tall..?