Moulton front suspension arms

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pete75
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Re: Moulton front suspension arms

Postby pete75 » 12 Mar 2019, 7:50pm

Mick F wrote:I tried to do it as per the Moultonbuzz instructions, and it was rubbish. I suggest that Moulton/Pashley have their own ideas, and those ideas fit in with my ideas.


Who are these MoultonBuzz people?
Not Moulton/Pashley I'll wager.


The instructions appear to be published by Moulton/Pashley and just reproduced on the MoultonBuzz website.

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Mick F
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Re: Moulton front suspension arms

Postby Mick F » 12 Mar 2019, 7:52pm

Ok.
Send your Moulton back to the factory for a refurb and maintenance at vast expense.
What do they do?
Put it back to brand new condition ...................... greased.

I ask again.
Who are these MoultonBuzz people to suggest how the suspension arms should be set up, when brand new they are at odds with what they say?

Who's right?
I reckon I am, and so is the factory who built it.
Mick F. Cornwall

pete75
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Re: Moulton front suspension arms

Postby pete75 » 12 Mar 2019, 7:56pm

Mick F wrote:Ok.
Send your Moulton back to the factory for a refurb and maintenance at vast expense.
What do they do?
Put it back to brand new condition ...................... greased.

I ask again.
Who are these MoultonBuzz people to suggest how the suspension arms should be set up, when brand new they are at odds with what they say?

Who's right?
I reckon I am, and so is the factory who built it.


I think it's the Moulton owners club website.http://www.moultonbuzz.com/ ' The International Club for Moultoneers' . They appear to have a lot of meetings in Bradford on Avon at the hall where Alex Moulton lived.

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Mick F
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Re: Moulton front suspension arms

Postby Mick F » 12 Mar 2019, 8:09pm

Let me put the record absolutely correct.

I bought the bike in March 2016.
Soon after getting it, I pulled it apart to see how it worked, as I do with stuff generally.
I was given a set of instructions for disassembly and reassembly of the frame, and a sheet of maintenance instructions.
I looked on line regarding anything and everything regarding Moulton TSRs and found the MoultonBuzz website and forum. I joined the forum, but it wasn't very good and I've not looked at it since.
I saw the instructions regarding the suspension linkage arms and downloaded a PDF copy and studied it intently.
It's a good PDF, except for two issues.

If the factory greases the linkages, then that's good enough for me.
Doing as the PDF suggests, is rubbish.

Despite the issue with greasing or not greasing the linkages, they gloss over the compression of the spring.
It cannot be done without some form of mechanical anchorage to hold the spring compressed, as without it, you cannot get the linkages off easily or back on at all.

Full stop.
Hence my thread.
Mick F. Cornwall

pete75
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Re: Moulton front suspension arms

Postby pete75 » 12 Mar 2019, 8:25pm

Mick F wrote:Let me put the record absolutely correct.

I bought the bike in March 2016.
Soon after getting it, I pulled it apart to see how it worked, as I do with stuff generally.
I was given a set of instructions for disassembly and reassembly of the frame, and a sheet of maintenance instructions.
I looked on line regarding anything and everything regarding Moulton TSRs and found the MoultonBuzz website and forum. I joined the forum, but it wasn't very good and I've not looked at it since.
I saw the instructions regarding the suspension linkage arms and downloaded a PDF copy and studied it intently.
It's a good PDF, except for two issues.

If the factory greases the linkages, then that's good enough for me.
Doing as the PDF suggests, is rubbish.

Despite the issue with greasing or not greasing the linkages, they gloss over the compression of the spring.
It cannot be done without some form of mechanical anchorage to hold the spring compressed, as without it, you cannot get the linkages off easily or back on at all.

Full stop.
Hence my thread.


The only thing I can think of is those instructions are dated 2006. Back then they may have used some form of self lubricating materiel and have since used something else.

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Mick F
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Re: Moulton front suspension arms

Postby Mick F » 12 Mar 2019, 8:29pm

Excerpt from the instructions for the TSR30 like I have.
Note the "new".
Note also how it glosses over the spring tension.

FRONT SUSPENSION DISASSEMBLY (NEW)
With the bicycle held in a workstand, remove the front wheel, front brake cable (brake caliper and mudgaurd (if fitted) can be left in place or removed), remove any computer sensors attached to the fork stirrup.
Some people may find the job easier if the whole fork assembly is removed from the frame.
Start by removing the six M5 stainless steel bolts and washers from the leading links. The outer links should then be removed, this can be tricky and it may be necessary to compress the suspension slightly. Remove the four (two on
each side) light blue friction washers from the forkends.
The inner plates can now be removed, along with the four inner friction washers. In the middle there will be a bolt with a small red (or light blue) washer which is the rebound stop.
Take care removing the inner plates, as the fork stirrup is spring loaded (unless the bearing has seized).


My washers are GREEN.

I suggest all the MoultonBuzz people and forumites read this thread.
They might learn something.
Mick F. Cornwall

hercule
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Re: Moulton front suspension arms

Postby hercule » 12 Mar 2019, 9:02pm

Interesting. The washers on my AM in 1990 spec were blue, and when I last replaced them (can’t remember when now) the replacements were blue too. Makes me wonder if they have changed the spec. Or alternatively that they’d run out of the specified ones when they built yours and substituted an alternative that needed lubricating to work as intended.... :shock:

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Mick F
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Re: Moulton front suspension arms

Postby Mick F » 13 Mar 2019, 9:28am

Possibly true. Good point.
I still object to the PDF telling you how to do the job without explaining it's nigh-on impossible unless you compress the spring mechanically first.




Sudden thought as I was typing ...........
Possibly, they've altered the length of the spring too?
Mick F. Cornwall

gazza_d
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Re: Moulton front suspension arms

Postby gazza_d » 15 Mar 2019, 7:07am

A bit late to this but I use either an old toestrap or a short luggage strap (for tieing bikes to car racks) to compress my spring when I'm removing the links.

As for lube, an occasional spray with GT85 (ot other teflon based spray lube not WD40 though) and then leave to penetrate is the correct approach (I recall).
Certainly that's what I do. I use a rag or some kitchen towel to catch overspray and drips, then liberally dowse the links.
I have had occasions where they've felt "sticky" or even squeaked a little, and the GT85 has worked a treat.

When I strip suspension, I use some cro-moly grease (what I use for rear pivot) to smear on the spring etc to protect and lube it a little.

I think the insert colours have varied over the years slightly. I'm not sure there's any great difference, apart from the bump stops which did change colour and diameter to stop the front forks bottoming out

Brucey
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Re: Moulton front suspension arms

Postby Brucey » 15 Mar 2019, 7:41am

gazza_d wrote:
When I strip suspension, I use some cro-moly grease (what I use for rear pivot) to smear on the spring etc to protect and lube it a little.



cro-moly grease....? :shock:

you mean MoS2 grease perhaps....?.... :wink:

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

nigelnightmare
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Re: Moulton front suspension arms

Postby nigelnightmare » 15 Mar 2019, 11:05am

Nice bit of work there Mick.
Also nice to see you protecting the table from the tool box. :wink:

P.S.
If you're worried about the grease effecting the plastic you could use "Silicone grease".

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Mick F
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Re: Moulton front suspension arms

Postby Mick F » 15 Mar 2019, 4:57pm

nigelnightmare wrote:Nice bit of work there Mick.
Also nice to see you protecting the table from the tool box. :wink:
Thanks!

Nice solid pine table, that both our daughters, as well as Mrs Mick F consider way too big.
Personally ..... and I bought it ........... I think it's the right size. Multi-purpose bit of "work bench" perhaps?

Back on topic.
My wire constructions complete with bottle screw, are now in a box in the workshop with the rest of the Special Tools for Bikes. :D
Mick F. Cornwall

dezzie
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Re: Moulton front suspension arms

Postby dezzie » 18 Mar 2019, 3:17pm

Mick you may want to join the various UK Moulton groups on Facebook as your more likely to get a quicker response than the Moultonbuzz pages which are way behind the times, you will find folk who build them and write books on them in the groups even on my F frame group, someone will know the craic and respond quickly on any topic.

dezzie
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Re: Moulton front suspension arms

Postby dezzie » 18 Mar 2019, 3:28pm

I just found this which may explain a bit.
https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Bicycle ... ading_link

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Mick F
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Re: Moulton front suspension arms

Postby Mick F » 18 Mar 2019, 5:41pm

dezzie wrote:Mick you may want to join the various UK Moulton groups on Facebook

I don't do Facebook.

Don't agree with it the instructions! :wink:
My GREEEN washers need grease.

The suspension needs compressing much more than "slightly".
Mick F. Cornwall