'Z' spokes

[Patrickpioneer]

has anyone ever made Z spokes to carry with them as emergency spokes? I found them reading my readers digest destroy it yourself handbook
Patrick

[ANTONISH]

I don't know of 'Z' spokes - I carry a "Fiberfix" emergency spoke ( based on a kevlar string) when I'm touring.
It does the job.

[Samuel D]

I have not but have read about it, for example here.

[Patrickpioneer]

here is another link about them
https://www.wheelfanatyk.com/blog/z-spokes/

[catsnapper]

Quite common in classic Raleigh (and other) 3spd bikes until the '50s. Details here:https://www.wheelfanatyk.com/blog/z-spokes
I've got a bending tool similar to the one sold by wheelfanatyk and made a few wheels using a S-A 3spd brake hub.

[ANTONISH]

I see what is meant by " Z " spokes.
It's an old idea - in fact if you can put slightly more than a 90 degree bend - it will hold without the double bend - IME it's easier to accomplish.

[Mick F]

I don't know of 'Z' spokes - I carry a "Fiberfix" emergency spoke ( based on a kevlar string) when I'm touring.
It does the job.

Why not a real spoke?

[foxyrider]

I don't know of 'Z' spokes - I carry a "Fiberfix" emergency spoke ( based on a kevlar string) when I'm touring.
It does the job.

Why not a real spoke?

I take something similar on extended tours.

Why not a real spoke? Well for starters i'd need 3 sizes and a cassette removal system for it to be useful to do. The 'string' spoke can be used without removing the cassette, is adjustable to any spoke size regardless of wheel size /spoking pattern. It's also much easier to carry, sat in the seatpack, no worries about bending, rattling or losing and I only need one to cover all my bikes.

I bought it about six years ago after a broken spoke on a tour couldn't be sorted (no bike shop had service time available!) which had me limping around a further fortnight.

So far i've not had to use it but I know it's there.

[Brucey]

IME Z spokes are not as strong as normal spokes and the bends tend to 'pull out' if they are not quite the right shape and the spoke is used at high tension e.g. in a driveside rear application. Such spokes usually won't survive 'proper stress-relief'. If you want to make useful Z spokes it is best to start with a 13/14G butted spoke and make the bends in the 13G section. However, in addition to the usual 'cassette cracker' and 'adjust tension and carry on until LBS is reached' approaches to spoke breakage, do note the following;

a) If you are using a cartridge bearing rear hub it is usually possible to remove the freewheel body with the cassette still on it quite easily; this allows very good access to replace the spokes.

b) If you are using a standard shimano cassette hub on tour then you are presumably carrying cone spanners anyway. The additional weight of a tool to unscrew the freehub body (with the cassette still attached) is only 20g or so, and allows a DS spoke to be replaced.

c) careful selection of components and spoking pattern means that you don't have to carry mutiple different spoke lengths. For example using large flange hubs and building the rear wheel virtually dishless (eg 135mm OLN and a shortened cassette mounted on a 7s freehub body) means all the spokes can be exactly the same length.

d) if using a cassette or freewheel in which all the splined sprockets retained by a threaded top cog, you can remove the sprockets from the freewheel body/freehub and replace spokes in a wheel built with a LF hub (always) or a SF hub (sometimes).

e) some (very wide range) cassettes have holes in them that allow a spoke to be fed (inbound) into a LF hub. A temporary repair (even if an outbound spoke has broken) thusly will work just fine.

f) an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of 'cure'; properly specified and properly built wheels oughtn't break spokes anyway.

cheers

[Mick F]

Three spokes.
I take those on tour.

Fronts are easy.
Non-drive side is easy.
Drive side less so ....................... but .........

Carry three or four pencils or ballpoint pens with you.
Push them through the spokes into the back of your cassette to lock it.
Fit a freewheel remover into the lockring, but use one that has been cross-drilled to take a tommy bar.
Fit the lockring remover and hold it in place by the QR or tracknut, and undo your cassette using the tommy bar for leverage.

Try it.
Experiment.
It works!
Simple and light.

Photographs to follow, but tomorrow maybe.

[andrew_s]

I take something similar on extended tours.

The 'string' spoke can be used without removing the cassette, is adjustable to any spoke size regardless of wheel size /spoking pattern. It's also much easier to carry, sat in the seatpack, no worries about bending, rattling or losing and I only need one to cover all my bikes.

I bought it about six years ago after a broken spoke on a tour couldn't be sorted (no bike shop had service time available!) which had me limping around a further fortnight.

So far i've not had to use it but I know it's there.

Have you actually tested to see if you can get enough tension on the string to pull the rim back straight without the threaded end going through the rim tape?

I have heard that it's difficult.

[fastpedaller]

Three spokes.
I take those on tour.

Fronts are easy.
Non-drive side is easy.
Drive side less so ....................... but .........

Carry three or four pencils or ballpoint pens with you.
Push them through the spokes into the back of your cassette to lock it.
Fit a freewheel remover into the lockring, but use one that has been cross-drilled to take a tommy bar.
Fit the lockring remover and hold it in place by the QR or tracknut, and undo your cassette using the tommy bar for leverage.

Try it.
Experiment.
It works!
Simple and light.

Photographs to follow, but tomorrow maybe.

Hmm.... I suspect 3 or 4 pencils that are strong enough to lock the cassette would weigh more than a chain wrench!

[ANTONISH]

I take something similar on extended tours.

The 'string' spoke can be used without removing the cassette, is adjustable to any spoke size regardless of wheel size /spoking pattern. It's also much easier to carry, sat in the seatpack, no worries about bending, rattling or losing and I only need one to cover all my bikes.

I bought it about six years ago after a broken spoke on a tour couldn't be sorted (no bike shop had service time available!) which had me limping around a further fortnight.

So far i've not had to use it but I know it's there.

Have you actually tested to see if you can get enough tension on the string to pull the rim back straight without the threaded end going through the rim tape?

I have heard that it's difficult.

I have only used a string spoke once - a friend gave it to me when I broke a spoke - it definitely worked and it saved me altering the tensions on the other spokes. I replaced the spoke when I got home. At the time I had a freewheel - not so easy to remove.
I believe the breaking strain of the kevlar string is very high and will last for hundreds of miles - at least long enough to get to somewhere where a permanent repair can be carried out.
I have a new unused one which I carry on tour.
It's probably best to have tried it on a spare wheel beforehand to get the hang of it. The method is to get some tension into the string first and the tighten up with a spoke key.

[Mick F]

Three spokes.
I take those on tour.

Fronts are easy.
Non-drive side is easy.
Drive side less so ....................... but .........

Carry three or four pencils or ballpoint pens with you.
Push them through the spokes into the back of your cassette to lock it.
Fit a freewheel remover into the lockring, but use one that has been cross-drilled to take a tommy bar.
Fit the lockring remover and hold it in place by the QR or tracknut, and undo your cassette using the tommy bar for leverage.

Try it.
Experiment.
It works!
Simple and light.

Photographs to follow, but tomorrow maybe.

Hmm.... I suspect 3 or 4 pencils that are strong enough to lock the cassette would weigh more than a chain wrench!

No, not at all.
Sorry, busy most of the day, but I'll get back to this tomorrow to show how it's done.

[Mick F]

Found my original thread from 2010.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=41597