Pannier Fixing

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groberts
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Pannier Fixing

Postby groberts » 30 Mar 2019, 3:14pm

Following a knee replacement a few years ago I've successfully converted my Trek 830 to electric assistance which has allowed me to continue cycling, without it I'd be off the road! I deliberately chose a large, high power flat battery to provide good range which neatly slides into the bespoke rear rack that comes with the kit and for day-to-day rides a saddlebag or rack pack works fine.

However, I'm now thinking of venturing back to touring and would like to use my Classic Ortlieb Backrollers for this purpose. Unfortunately there is insufficient clearance between the battery and top rack bars for the QL1 (or QL2?) Ortlieb pannier-to-rack mounting to clip over = bad design! See pictures.

Does anybody have any idea how I might overcome this problem and thereby continue to my Ortliebs or if I really have to, are there alternative panniers that would work?

Thanks, Graham

Rack (Medium).jpg


IMG_20170801_102600601_HDR (Medium).jpg

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foxyrider
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Re: Pannier Fixing

Postby foxyrider » 30 Mar 2019, 4:43pm

I've come across this set up a few times, if they actually made the rack properly there wouldn't be an issue :( it's not just Ortlieb that won't fit but pretty much any modern bags.

Do you know anyone who can weld alu and add an outside drop bar? IIRC Ortlieb now do a mounting system similar to the old Karrimor set up and I think you'd be able to convert your existing bags.
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

Brucey
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Re: Pannier Fixing

Postby Brucey » 30 Mar 2019, 4:48pm

if you fancy a little light engineering, this sort of thing (meant for wire rope)

Image

is available in different sizes and will allow some meccano-style adaptation to your rack.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oldjohnw
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Re: Pannier Fixing

Postby Oldjohnw » 31 Mar 2019, 9:53am

I had exactly this problem and came across these double panniers. They are waterproof and work perfectly.

https://agu.com/en/catalogsearch/result/?q=pannier&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwZSMrYCs4QIVyr3tCh0IiAj5EAAYASAAEgIeNvD_BwE
John

Cycling and recycling

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Sweep
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Re: Pannier Fixing

Postby Sweep » 31 Mar 2019, 1:17pm

foxyrider wrote:I IIRC Ortlieb now do a mounting system similar to the old Karrimor set up and I think you'd be able to convert your existing bags.

Interesting foxy.
Do you have a pic/link for this?
Sweep

groberts
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Re: Pannier Fixing

Postby groberts » 31 Mar 2019, 5:39pm

Thanks for the ideas and comments. You would think that when making a rack like this they would consider fitting requirements for panniers as well = very poor and annoying design!

I presume the Ortlieb alternative fixing is the QL3? If it is, from what I can see it (a) will not retrofit the panniers I have and (b) seems to be for light weight town / office / work panniers rather than heavy duty touring.

Not sure which way to go yet but useful food for thought.

Graham

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interestedcp
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Re: Pannier Fixing

Postby interestedcp » 31 Mar 2019, 8:44pm

Besides buying new panniers, there are a couple of other options.

According to the Ortlieb FAQ, your QL2 panniers can be hooked directly into the QL3.1 rail.
https://www.ortlieb.com/us/service/faq/

That means you can attach this QL3.1 rail to your rack and use it as an extra rail:
https://www.ortlieb.com/uk/e201

I recall that the weight limit is around 9-10 kg per side but I can't find the exact place where I read it. You should definitely use hook inserts in the QL2 hooks so they fit completely snug to reduce strain and wear. Glue them on or else they tend to be knocked off.

Another option is mounting the Ortlieb "Adapter For Travel-Biker". However I can't see whether it is possible to do because of the rack-bag obscuring the view of the upper side of the rack.

But if was possible, the "Travel-Biker adapter" provides an extra upper rail to mount the QL2 panniers on. You may need the extra wide rail (spare part number: E199). In principle you could just buy the E199 if you found a good method of securing it to your rack.
https://www.ortlieb.com/uk/e199
https://www.ortlieb.com/uk/adapter-travelbiker-trunkbag

Notice that Ortlieb specifically says that "Travel-Biker adapter" is "Not suitable for E-Bikes with battery packs attached under the rack". I think this is solely because there usually aren't free space above the battery to allow mounting of the adapter.

Another option is to run strong and wide heavy duty straps/webbing under the rails of the panniers, thereby converting them to classic "throw over panniers".
It is easy to bore new holes in the bag and its internal plastic plate and make extra attachments using M5 bolts and nylon lock nuts.

In any case, ensure that there is ample of free space between the battery and the panniers/pannier straps. The abrasive power of a pannier is amazing.
Last edited by interestedcp on 1 Apr 2019, 12:28am, edited 1 time in total.
--
Regards

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foxyrider
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Re: Pannier Fixing

Postby foxyrider » 31 Mar 2019, 10:06pm

Sweep wrote:
foxyrider wrote:I IIRC Ortlieb now do a mounting system similar to the old Karrimor set up and I think you'd be able to convert your existing bags.

Interesting foxy.
Do you have a pic/link for this?


Beaten to it, it's the QL3 mentioned above
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

groberts
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Re: Pannier Fixing

Postby groberts » 3 Apr 2019, 5:32pm

interestedcp wrote:Besides buying new panniers, there are a couple of other options.

According to the Ortlieb FAQ, your QL2 panniers can be hooked directly into the QL3.1 rail.
https://www.ortlieb.com/us/service/faq/

That means you can attach this QL3.1 rail to your rack and use it as an extra rail:
https://www.ortlieb.com/uk/e201

I recall that the weight limit is around 9-10 kg per side but I can't find the exact place where I read it. You should definitely use hook inserts in the QL2 hooks so they fit completely snug to reduce strain and wear. Glue them on or else they tend to be knocked off.

Another option is mounting the Ortlieb "Adapter For Travel-Biker". However I can't see whether it is possible to do because of the rack-bag obscuring the view of the upper side of the rack.

But if was possible, the "Travel-Biker adapter" provides an extra upper rail to mount the QL2 panniers on. You may need the extra wide rail (spare part number: E199). In principle you could just buy the E199 if you found a good method of securing it to your rack.
https://www.ortlieb.com/uk/e199
https://www.ortlieb.com/uk/adapter-travelbiker-trunkbag

Notice that Ortlieb specifically says that "Travel-Biker adapter" is "Not suitable for E-Bikes with battery packs attached under the rack". I think this is solely because there usually aren't free space above the battery to allow mounting of the adapter.

Another option is to run strong and wide heavy duty straps/webbing under the rails of the panniers, thereby converting them to classic "throw over panniers".
It is easy to bore new holes in the bag and its internal plastic plate and make extra attachments using M5 bolts and nylon lock nuts.

In any case, ensure that there is ample of free space between the battery and the panniers/pannier straps. The abrasive power of a pannier is amazing.


I need to look more closely these thoughts but first wanted just to thank you for these extensive thoughts.

I had already looked at the QL3 approach but it seemed to me that the Orlieb pannier could not be adapted in this way. Also the weight limit might be a problem.

The conversion to throw over panniers might work, will take a closer look, but in that event might just be better to purchase new panniers made for that purpose?

The Travel Bike Adapter isn't yet clear to me and the the warning is of concern.

Yes,as you say the abrasive power of a pannier is surprising. My wife uses hers for touring as well as day-to-day shopping and her rack has just worn through and fallen apart!

Thanks again, Graham

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interestedcp
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Re: Pannier Fixing

Postby interestedcp » 3 Apr 2019, 6:29pm

groberts wrote:I had already looked at the QL3 approach but it seemed to me that the Orlieb pannier could not be adapted in this way. Also the weight limit might be a problem.


According to Ortlieb it is technically impossible to convert QL2 bags into QL3 bags, which is presumably the reason why they don't sell individual QL3 bag attachments.

But if you can live with the weight limit you don't need to convert the QL2 bags since they can hook directly into the QL3.1 rail. So your problem could be easily solved for around £14.


groberts wrote:The conversion to throw over panniers might work, will take a closer look, but in that event might just be better to purchase new panniers made for that purpose?


Only you can answer that question: some find DIY solutions very satisfying and it could in principle be done very cheaply. For others, lack of time, space, and tools, makes it much better to just buy new.

groberts wrote:The Travel Bike Adapter isn't yet clear to me and the the warning is of concern.


There aren't many good pictures, so let me explain:
You simply attach the "Travel Bike Adapter" on top of your rack. The "Travel Bike Adapter" has a extra rail which you can attach your pannier's Ql2 hooks directly onto.

I think the total pannier weight limit is around 25kg, but you can always use a rack pack for heavy things.

The problem with this adapter is that it may not fit on your rack because of lack of space above the battery. Hence the warning from Ortlieb. You are not alone with this problem; practically every ebike with a rack battery I have seen have similar problems.

You can skip the adapter and just use the extra rail (E199) and mount it on top of your rack using a DIY solution. Would definitely require time, planning and DIY skills to do, but it could be done cheaply and allow you to use existing panniers.
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groberts
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Re: Pannier Fixing

Postby groberts » 4 May 2019, 2:39pm

Oldjohnw wrote:I had exactly this problem and came across these double panniers. They are waterproof and work perfectly.

https://agu.com/en/catalogsearch/result/?q=pannier&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwZSMrYCs4QIVyr3tCh0IiAj5EAAYASAAEgIeNvD_BwE


As a matter of interest, which ones did you get?

Oldjohnw
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Location: Northumberland

Re: Pannier Fixing

Postby Oldjohnw » 4 May 2019, 2:42pm

groberts wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:I had exactly this problem and came across these double panniers. They are waterproof and work perfectly.

https://agu.com/en/catalogsearch/result/?q=pannier&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwZSMrYCs4QIVyr3tCh0IiAj5EAAYASAAEgIeNvD_BwE


As a matter of interest, which ones did you get?


The Urban Trend H20: https://agu.com/en/dubbele-fietstas-urban-trend-h2o-roll-top-waterdicht-grijs

I am delighted with them.
John

Cycling and recycling

groberts
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Re: Pannier Fixing

Postby groberts » 6 May 2019, 2:18pm

Thanks John.

nigelnightmare
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Re: Pannier Fixing

Postby nigelnightmare » 9 May 2019, 9:51pm

Will they fit if you remove the battery?
If so remove battery, fit pannier bags, refit battery.

Oldjohnw
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Re: Pannier Fixing

Postby Oldjohnw » 14 May 2019, 9:07am

nigelnightmare wrote:Will they fit if you remove the battery?
If so remove battery, fit pannier bags, refit battery.



My exoerience with Ortlieb is not. Which is why I went down the double pannier route. Worked perfectly. Not as clever lifting them off as you lift two bags.
John

Cycling and recycling