Best Folding Tourer?

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Brucey
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Re: Best Folding Tourer?

Postby Brucey » 21 Apr 2019, 4:32pm

85cm is a gnat's wotsit under 33.5". Can someone confirm if this is a 'square' dimension limitation or a diagonal? [ If the former then a square box 85 x85cm would be allowed, if the latter then it wouldn't]. If the former then there are any number of bikes that could be packaged to suit.

cheers
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bikepacker
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Re: Best Folding Tourer?

Postby bikepacker » 21 Apr 2019, 4:45pm

PH wrote:
bikepacker wrote:I have done three tours with Airnimal Joeys using Eurostar and TGV changing at Lille.

Interesting - Did you just carry the bagged Airnimals on, or need to book them?


Carried on and put on the luggage racks at the end of the carriage. Same for the suitcase.

Can I just add: For the Tubus bike racks I screwed long pins from the inside of the frame and forks then fastened the racks with wing nuts and spring washers from the outside. This enabled a quick fitting with just a multi-tool and leatherman.
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PH
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Re: Best Folding Tourer?

Postby PH » 22 Apr 2019, 12:00am

bikepacker wrote:
PH wrote:
bikepacker wrote:I have done three tours with Airnimal Joeys using Eurostar and TGV changing at Lille.

Interesting - Did you just carry the bagged Airnimals on, or need to book them?


Carried on and put on the luggage racks at the end of the carriage. Same for the suitcase.

Can I just add: For the Tubus bike racks I screwed long pins from the inside of the frame and forks then fastened the racks with wing nuts and spring washers from the outside. This enabled a quick fitting with just a multi-tool and leatherman.

Thanks. I'll put Eurostar on my to do list, I sometimes see last minute deals which if I can just walk on with the bagged bike are worth taking advantage of.

Ivor Tingting
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Re: Best Folding Tourer?

Postby Ivor Tingting » 22 Apr 2019, 2:10am

horizon wrote:
Ivor Tingting wrote:If you want to be able to take your bike without any hassle on the Eurostar or TGV then the only bike that will allow you is a Brompton. I know I have done it. And to dispel the misinformation about touring. A Brompton is more than capable. I have toured in the Pyrenees on mine with camping gear, climbed the cols Marie Blanc, the Soulor, Aubisque and Tourmalet on mine. I have a 6 speed with std gearing. You can or could get a lower ratio hub if you so wished meaning lower gears or simply fit a smaller front chain ring. But to dispel all the myths and misinformation it is a very enjoyable bike to tour on.


I've never taken a bike on the Eurostar so cannot be sure, but the OP asked for less than 85 cm so that includes 20" folders. I'd agree that 24" (so that's Airnimal) is a no-no.

Ivor Tingting: Bromptons have small wheels and yours only 6 speed. The "misinformation" is based on those two facts. Personally I've no problem with other people touring on a Brompton but I would choose larger wheels and more gears. My Tern Node D16 (that's 16 gears and 24" wheels) is great but too big for the Eurostar. However a Tern Link D16 (20" wheels, 16 gears) would have fitted. Sadly it is no longer available.


Well that's mighty generous of you. LoL.
Before I bought my Brompton I test rode quite a few rival folding bikes, some better, some not, than their fellow folders. Some felt really quite unnervingly unsafe. Quite a few have since quite literally folded. But it was the Brompton that won the day for me as it was simply the best in terms of fast compact folding for total convenience imho and still is, no contest. No other folding bike comes close if you are jumping on and off trains, etc with it. Millions of people who have bought them can't be wrong. I had no problem getting up the cols of the Pyrenees or down for that matter on mine. Maybe I am just a fitter and stronger cyclist than you? However I recognise Bromptons are expensive and may well be out of some people's budget which is when the misinformation is brought up. A bit like the Rohloff hub. I am fortunate I can afford or could afford a Brompton at the time and also Rohloff hubs. As I say not every one is in this position so cheaper options may well be necessary. It would have been helpful if the OP had indicated their budget.
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cycle tramp
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Re: Best Folding Tourer?

Postby cycle tramp » 22 Apr 2019, 10:35am

Good question, from the person who posted the question. Can I ask how tall you are? Your ideal bike may be dependant on your height :-)

Claud
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Re: Best Folding Tourer?

Postby Claud » 22 Apr 2019, 10:39am

Ivor Tingting wrote:I had no problem getting up the cols of the Pyrenees or down for that matter on mine. Maybe I am just a fitter and stronger cyclist than you? However I recognise Bromptons are expensive and may well be out of some people's budget which is when the misinformation is brought up. A bit like the Rohloff hub. I am fortunate I can afford or could afford a Brompton at the time and also Rohloff hubs. As I say not every one is in this position so cheaper options may well be necessary. It would have been helpful if the OP had indicated their budget.


What are your top & bottom gears, Ivor?

And on budget, less than £700ish on eBay would be good. That'll get me a vgc Joey, haven't looked at others yet. The way I see it is that it's also an investment, expecting to get a good chunk back with a sale down the line, especially on a sought-after model.
Last edited by Claud on 22 Apr 2019, 11:40am, edited 1 time in total.

Claud
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Re: Best Folding Tourer?

Postby Claud » 22 Apr 2019, 10:46am

That kicked off a great discussion - thanks, guys :)

On the Eurostar regs, it just says "2 pieces of luggage (up to 85cm long) + 1 small piece of hand luggage". So I guess that's the length of the longest side. No stated restriction on the length of other sides, but can't imagine they'd be happy with an 85cm cube! It's a useful note from bikepacker on the nylon holdall - needed to count the 2 panniers + tent as one bag, but thin & strong to pack down for the mini tour.

On the Airnimal folded size, the manufacturer website doesn't seem to say, PH states 85x90x29 and the bikefix website has "83x80x25 [typo 83x60x25??]. For extra protection you can also put it in the Traveller Case: 87x66x35". Hmmm. Bikepacker: Do you know your folded dimensions? Also, detail from any more owners would be great!

And I'm 6ft. But like a short-reach setup.

Will do some research later on Terns, Moultons, Rudge, ......

bikepacker
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Re: Best Folding Tourer?

Postby bikepacker » 22 Apr 2019, 11:02am

Don't know the measurements and as I have sold all the Airnimals I have no way of measuring. All I can add is on the 5 journeys (three there and two back) I made with the previously stated setup, no one ever queried the size of the bags or case. In fact there were some larger suitcases on the train luggage rack than mine.
There is your way. There is my way. But there is no "the way".

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horizon
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Re: Best Folding Tourer?

Postby horizon » 22 Apr 2019, 11:09am

Ivor Tingting wrote:
Maybe I am just a fitter and stronger cyclist than you?


Without a doubt.

I once posted (a long time ago) that there are claims made that you can do anything on any bike, even a unicycle (and there are people around to prove it). It completely blows away all the discussion about doubles and triples and rolling resistance of tyres and, well everything. I'm not party to most of these discussions (I don't have the technical know-how). One discussion has been about wheel size and another about gearing. Generally, and this is opinion only, the conclusion is that larger wheels and wider range gearing are better for touring. I've known (from reading very believable reports) that touring on a Brompton is fine. I was also really impressed by the way that my 20" wheel Dahon performed. But the principle still stands (if you subscribe to it). A Brompton, by its nature, has small wheels. That's all I was trying to say.
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PH
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Re: Best Folding Tourer?

Postby PH » 22 Apr 2019, 11:45am

Claud wrote:On the Airnimal folded size, the manufacturer website doesn't seem to say, PH states 85x90x29 and the bikefix website has "83x80x25 [typo 83x60x25??]. For extra protection you can also put it in the Traveller Case: 87x66x35". Hmmm.


I'm not currently in the same city as mine otherwise I'd measure it for you. I can't remember where I read those numbers, so they may be wrong, this Cycle review puts the first fold at 98 x 85, the smaller dimensions of the case require it being stripped down further, there's a video on the Airnimal website. I'm tempted by the case, but the sort of touring I do would also mean the trailer and taking it with me which I'm less keen on.
https://www.cyclinguk.org/sites/default ... 401064.pdf

And I'm 6ft. But like a short-reach setup.

The Joey takes a standard ahead stem, so you can fine tune the position, I'm 6'3" and find it comfortable, it's also been ridden by a few others, the shortest a little over 5'. This adjustability rather than the fold was my prime reason for getting it, I like to have a bike anyone can ride.

While looking for the above review, I also fond this about Bromptons in the Alps:
https://www.cyclinguk.org/cycle/bromptons-alps

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mjr
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Re: Best Folding Tourer?

Postby mjr » 22 Apr 2019, 2:31pm

Brucey wrote:Rinko is more an approach/modification than a specific type of bike; adaptations to the bike include QD fastenings for the headset, rack, mudguards etc; to get the package size small enough the forks have to come out. Rinko was specifically worked out to allow touring bikes to be taken on the train in Japan.

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2015/12/17/rinko-parts-useful-not-only-for-train-travel/
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/07/08/how-small-is-a-rinko-bike/

Is anywhere in the UK or even EU selling these parts, or is it always a long wait? Velovitality used to stock some but no more AFAICT.
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Brucey
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Re: Best Folding Tourer?

Postby Brucey » 22 Apr 2019, 2:43pm

horizon wrote:….I once posted (a long time ago) that there are claims made that you can do anything on any bike, even a unicycle (and there are people around to prove it). It completely blows away all the discussion about doubles and triples and rolling resistance of tyres and, well everything. I'm not party to most of these discussions (I don't have the technical know-how). One discussion has been about wheel size and another about gearing. Generally, and this is opinion only, the conclusion is that larger wheels and wider range gearing are better for touring. I've known (from reading very believable reports) that touring on a Brompton is fine. I was also really impressed by the way that my 20" wheel Dahon performed. But the principle still stands (if you subscribe to it). A Brompton, by its nature, has small wheels. That's all I was trying to say.


I'd agree with that, hence my comment upthread that 'larger wheels are nicer to ride on'; that is not to say that you can't tour on a Brompton or other small-wheeled bike, but most cyclists wouldn't choose to do so, given a free choice. A Brompton folds very small; that is its party piece. This doesn't come without compromises however; one of those is price of course.

FWIW when folk claim that 'the only type of bike for purpose X is a so-and so because I used one' this immediately makes me think that in fact this is not the case. For one thing it is a logical fallacy; to prove that it is not possible to use anything else, you would need to have tried all the alternatives, and to have failed.

cheers
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Brucey
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Re: Best Folding Tourer?

Postby Brucey » 22 Apr 2019, 2:51pm

mjr wrote:
Brucey wrote:Rinko is more an approach/modification than a specific type of bike; adaptations to the bike include QD fastenings for the headset, rack, mudguards etc; to get the package size small enough the forks have to come out. Rinko was specifically worked out to allow touring bikes to be taken on the train in Japan.

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2015/12/17/rinko-parts-useful-not-only-for-train-travel/
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/07/08/how-small-is-a-rinko-bike/

Is anywhere in the UK or even EU selling these parts, or is it always a long wait? Velovitality used to stock some but no more AFAICT.


I don't know; however I do note that the special headset top nut is not required with an A-head headset, and many of the other parts are not strictly required either; a few wing nuts, slotted parts and a little improvisation can go a long way towards making something that will work well enough; just looking at other designs often suggests what might work equally well.

FWIW many years ago there was a mid-tour change of plan in Italy which necessitated an unplanned train journey of several hundred km. Having enquired in broken (no, shattered....) Italian it was established that whilst whole bikes could travel by train, they would travel on the next available goods train (or something) and their arrival within two days couldn't be entirely assured. However the practical limit for luggage on their trains was basically if it could be fitted (and would stay put) on a luggage rack, it would be tolerated. We 'knocked down' (impromptu rinko-ed) our touring bikes into packages which were small enough (just) and they stayed put on the luggage racks provided a couple of bungies were strategically employed. I guess it took about 25 minutes to unfangle/refangle them; we hadn't planned to do this so there were no adaptations to help us. The unfangled bike packages would have been mere 'luggage' had we bothered to wrap them, and could have been made smaller quite easily. The forks stayed in the frame, wheels racks and mudguards came off. We knew nothing of rinko then (in the 1980s) but it seemed to me that it ought to be possible to make the process a lot quicker with just a few small changes to the parts.

cheers
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RickH
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Re: Best Folding Tourer?

Postby RickH » 22 Apr 2019, 3:35pm

mjr wrote:Is anywhere in the UK or even EU selling these parts, or is it always a long wait? Velovitality used to stock some but no more AFAICT.

Jan Heine's Rene Herse Cycles (formerly Compass Cycles) do a couple of Ostrich branded bags the L-100 & SL-100. You may be able to order direct from the US (I don't know if they ship internationally) or a stockist of their tyres (such as Sven Cycles in Weymouth) may be able to get them.

tmac100
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Re: Best Folding Tourer?

Postby tmac100 » 22 Apr 2019, 5:14pm

Ivor Tingting wrote:If you want to be able to take your bike without any hassle on the Eurostar or TGV then the only bike that will allow you is a Brompton. I know I have done it. And to dispel the misinformation about touring. A Brompton is more than capable. ......


Heinz Stucke used a Brompton to tour 60K km in around 50 YEARS of touring. I have read his VERY interesting book. Google search him.Here a link through Brompton (naturally).

https://www.brompton.com/news/posts/201 ... inz-stucke