Best Folding Tourer?

[bikepacker]

I have had a look at Eurostar’s luggage rules and understand them to say that no piece of luggage should exceed 85 cms in any one direction and should be light enough for the owner to carry it without getting in anybodies way. I think that the biggest wheeled bike to easily comply with the 85cm rule would be a 20” wheeled job;

I never measured the Airnimal suitcase or the Carradice Bag but as I have previously stated I have taken both with Airnimal Joeys on Eurostar. I have also taken a Dahon Speed TR in a canvas bag on Eurostar without any problem.

[horizon]

This one seems to tick all the boxes:

https://foldingbike.biz/epages/7665e38c ... 8CUSTDTOUR

Your views welcomed.

[Brucey]

the RD is practically dragging along the ground. I guess that is the price you pay for fitting that RD on a 20" wheeled machine.

cheers

[Richard Fairhurst]

Yep, my Bike Friday NWT has the same issue. It's copable with, but you do pick up a lot of crud, and obviously any muddy paths are a no-no (*cough* NCN 45 Wyre Forest *cough* ).

[pjclinch]

the RD is practically dragging along the ground. I guess that is the price you pay for fitting that RD on a 20" wheeled machine.

I am always careful not to ride the 8-freight off a kerb at low angles on the right hand side for that very reason... Having said that, I've never managed to whack it in about 15 years, and the missus' 20" wheeled 'bent tourer appears similarly perilous but hasn't had an issue over a similar time frame. Same with various Birdys, I suppose.

In other words, not as perilous as it looks!

Pete.

[SA_SA_SA]

...If 16" wheels were a brilliant idea, there'd be more bikes (folding and non-folding) using them. As it is, Brompton 'inherited' its rim and tyre size from the original moulton design (you could buy those parts when the prototypes/early versions were being built), whereas Moulton have -for various reasons- moved away from that tyre and rim size....

Is the mere 20mm difference between 349rims (Brompton/original Moulton) and the 369mm rims of a modern Moulton really that significant for ride quality?
If so, at only 20mm difference would the Bromptons fold being unaffected by a step up (and why not use them on the Birdy too) or do I remember usage by other manufacturers being refused by Moulton?.
However, I expect some users of those would want fatter tyres....

[Brucey]

IIRC the 369mm dimension was used on racing moultons in the 1960s, with a narrower tyre, in the same frames as would accept the 349 rims and tyres. They simply carried on using the same rim size in the later AM series machines, but with very slightly wider tyres and (I think) slightly different clearances. The AM series machines were more overtly sporty than the original moultons, with improved suspension quality too, so it made sense to use the faster tyre.

Getting tyres made specially (in fact any parts made specially) is an expensive business. I wouldn't be surprised if Moulton refused to allow others to piggyback on their investment.

cheers

[SA_SA_SA]

...Getting tyres made specially (in fact any parts made specially) is an expensive business. I wouldn't be surprised if Moulton refused to allow others to piggyback on their investment....

Wouldn't the extra profit from selling to others help pay off that investment?

[PH]

On the Airnimal folded size, the manufacturer website doesn't seem to say, PH states 85x90x29 and the bikefix website has "83x80x25 [typo 83x60x25??]. For extra protection you can also put it in the Traveller Case: 87x66x35". Hmmm.

I'm not currently in the same city as mine otherwise I'd measure it for you. I can't remember where I read those numbers, so they may be wrong,

I'm reunited with mine - I think the variation in quoted sizes is due to the different configurations, tyre size could account for a couple of cm difference. Mine also has a longer steerer than any others I've seen, I may cut this down as even for me (6'3") I don't have the stem at the top. I also have a rack fitted and the mudguard attached to that, It could come off, but it's a bit of a faff, the front mudguard comes off easily to fold.
So - rear guard and rack, 85 X 98 x 30. if I removed the guard and rack and cur the steerer down I think I could get it to 85 x 85.

[Brucey]

...Getting tyres made specially (in fact any parts made specially) is an expensive business. I wouldn't be surprised if Moulton refused to allow others to piggyback on their investment....

Wouldn't the extra profit from selling to others help pay off that investment?

it also depends who owns the tooling and how much the replacement cost of the tooling is. Tyre moulds are expensive to make and just wear out.

cheers

[hoppy58]

I love my Dahon TR, bought on Gumtree for £450 in little used condition. Very comfortable to ride, 3 x 8 gears with SRAM dual drive. They still come up on ebay and Gumtree at reasonable prices. The fold isn't the smallest, but the ride makes up for that.

https://flic.kr/p/Hm7qpR

[SA_SA_SA]

...Wouldn't the extra profit from selling to others help pay off that investment?

...
it also depends who owns the tooling and how much the replacement cost of the tooling is. Tyre moulds are expensive to make and just wear out....

I was presuming they would charge enough to cover their costs and make a profit.

[Brucey]

why would you choose to use a tool which (if used to make moulton tyres only) might last almost indefinitely, but which would wear out and need replacing ( at a not inconsiderable capital cost) if use to make many more tyres for lots of other bikes? In the process all you might achieve is to create competition for your own product.

A better question might be why the tyre manufacturers (who make moulds all the time, and presumably source them at less cost than a third party might pay) don't produce tyres of their own in any given size.

cheers

[SA_SA_SA]

why would you choose to use a tool which (if used to make moulton tyres only) might last almost indefinitely, but which would wear out and need replacing ( at a not inconsiderable capital cost) if use to make many more tyres for lots of other bikes? In the process all you might achieve is to create competition for your own product.

A better question might be why the tyre manufacturers (who make moulds all the time, and presumably source them at less cost than a third party might pay) don't produce tyres of their own in any given size.

cheers

Schwalbe made a new size variant of the racer and marathon to fit the Brompton, if making your own is so much trouble why would Moulton not subcontract it like that? Also, if there are no second sources of Moulton tyres, then presumably owners will be eventually forced to change tyre /rim size to an non-unique one....

[Brucey]

Schwalbe made a new size variant of the racer and marathon to fit the Brompton....

they did this because they thought they would make money out of it; there are lots of bromptons out there and Brompton now fit schwalbes as OEM; lots of sales guaranteed. However Schwalbe have also stopped making tyres in some other sizes for reasons that are not dissimilar; they don't bother making 17" moulton tyres because the sales are just not there.

Also, if there are no second sources of Moulton tyres, then presumably owners will be eventually forced to change tyre /rim size to an non-unique one....

they are still making moultons using that rim and tyre size. If they stop there may be a problem. If they don't stop, there won't be a problem. In any event there are so few machines out there using that tyre and rim size that there probably are not enough sales to justify many sets of moulds in that size, unless you think a payback time of several decades is acceptable.

BTW there is absolutely no reason why a bike manufacturer shouldn't start to use that tyre and rim size if they wanted to in which case the tyre manufacturers would doubtless respond by making more tyres in that size. For example it seems pretty clear that a 17- 20" wheeled Brompton would sell (folk have made their own protoypes, independent of Brompton) and that even if it were expected to be only moderately successful it would warrant the manufacture of rims and tyres in whatever size was required, even if that was a unique size.

cheers