My new (old) bike - Miyata 1000 - Recomendations needed

[dim]

Hi Guys .... a great site and my 1st post here ....

I was after a bike that can take wider tyres, mudguards etc and which will be used as my daily commuter (40km+/day), aswell as for some Audax rides and Cambridge Touring Club rides. For commuting, I leave home every day 6 days a week throughout the year and get home late, so I need mudguards and proper lighting (a big section of my commute is on dark unlit paths)

I was not after a gravel bike, and looked very closely as having a new frame built (Bob Jackson world traveller), and also looked very closely at the Surly LHT (I used to own a Surly LHT). My intention was to build the bike with my choice of components (HED Belgium Plus rims, Son Deluxe Dynamo hub, dynamo lights etc etc)... Spa cycles have a Surly Cross check frame for £380 and I nearly bought one

When I worked out the cost of building a bike from a frame, and using seperate components, I decided to look at a complete older 1980's touring bike and replace some of the components. After some googling, I narrowed it down to 3 bikes (a Miyata 1000, a Trek 720 and a Specialized Expedition)

I've managed to find a Miyata 1000 in my size and it looks in very good condition (It is in transit with the courier at present, and I should receive it next week) .... herewith some photos from the advert:











now, after some more research, and being 'told off' by many, I've decided to keep this bike as is with only a few modifications (I've been told that this is a 'Grail bike' and it should be kept as is

however, I may need to change a few parts to make it more practical ... whatever I remove, I will keep just in case I ever wish to sell the bike (except for the tyres)

I won't change wheels, but will have my LBS change the front hub to a SonDeluxe dynamo hub and I will add some decent dynamo lights (I have the Supernova E3 Triple 2 front light in mind)

The Biopace crankset ..... Hmmmm .... not so sure, but I will try it first ... I will also add a Stages Powermeter (left crank, and the closest 'old fashioned' looking one is this one (Dura Ace 7700) :



I think that the rear spacing is 126mm but I will confirm when I receive the bike. I will keep the back wheel as is

The bike still has the original Miyata radial tyres and they look to be in very good condition. I've been told that they could fetch a very good price from someone who has a vintage/classic Miyata and who wishes to have the original tyres fitted. I don't have use for them so I will most probably sell them and replace with Continental GP5000 clinchers in 32mm (the wheels are 700c) .... I have the GP5000 TL (tubeless version in 25mm) on my other bike and I have ridden 2300km so far with zero punctures on crappy roads and in all weather conditions .... I rate these tyres highly... I will also try some Compass tyres at a later stage

I will remove the front rack and replace with with the smaller such as this one, but in black (reason being is that I can mount the front light on the rack):



I will keep the gearing/groupset etc as it is and I will keep the rear rack .... I will tidy up the cabling and I will most probably remove the rear view mirror (it's on the wrong side of the bike) .... saddle has to go, and I will replace it with a Gilles Berthoud Aravis open saddle (I used to have one mounted on my Surly)... I will have to save up for the Aravis but in the meantime I have a grey coloured Brooks C17 Cambium Carved saddle

so, my questions are:

1. If I were to have another lighter wheelset built that I could use for longer Audax rides with lots of elevation, I would want to keep the same size freewheel on the rear (I think it's either 5 or 6 speed and will know when I receive the bike) .... which hubs do you recomend (with the 126mm spacing) Wheelset that I would be looking at building would be HED Belgium Plus rims (32/36), Son Dynamo Hub, Sapim spokes (my wheelbuider will advise on which spokes) .... I have HED Belgium Plus rims with Chris King R45 hubs (the ceramic bearing upgrade) and Sapim CxRay spokes on my Trek Emonda, and am very happy with these ... I would prefer to use tubeless tyres (I've been using tubeless for the past 2 years and love them)... so, I'd have 2 sets of wheels (the original with a Son dynamo hub as seen in the pics), and another lighter set that I can easily swop over when needed

2. Brake Pads .... I would look at Koolstop, but there are different sizes .... is there something similar and which size would fit my bike?

3. Pedals .... I will try the toe straps and if I don't get on with them, I would be looking at MTB clip in pedals and shoes .... I've always had SPD pedals and I have no experience with MTB pedals ... any recomendations?

4. I will keep the rear rack fitted as I commute with a back pack daily and carry 2 d locks ... I have a set of pannier bags that will fit the rack ... for shorter Audax rides, I'd perhaps look at Gilles Berthoud or a cheaper Carradice saddle bag .... the only downside to a saddle bag, is that I want to use my Garmin Radar unit and Cyclic Fly 6 camera which mount on the seat tube ... and the saddle bag will not give me enough free space .... are there any other suggestions of what I should be looking at

5. crankset .... if I need to change the crankset, what do you suggest? .... It would have to have 3 chain rings as I think this is only a 5 or 6 speed bike (I might need to use the granny ring from time to time)

6. Front Rack ... can you suggest something similar to the pic that I posted, but one that is black instead of silver?

7. Dynamo lighting .... suggestions? I would also like a charger such as E Werk as I may decide to use this bike on multi day Audax rides (I really like the Supernova E3 Triple 2 front light and I'm not sure what to use on the rear)

those are just some of my thoughts at present and I keep on changing my mind daily (LOL) .... any other suggestions?

I have already paid for and booked a proper bike fit with Primo Cycles in Cambridge (an STT 3DMA bike fit), so this will be interesting as I've never had a proper bike fit yet .... I'm hoping to do some very long rides with this bike

[jimlews]

The only things I would change on that bike would be the saddle and the chainrings (to non Biopace). My preferred option would be 24/38/46.
Everything else looks just fine. Much like the set up on my bike(s) in fact.

At a push, I might change the 'Staghead' rear derailleur for a slant parallelogram design; Shimano 'light action' danglers work really well with those SunTour bar end gear levers ( so good in fact, that you don't need indexing) and can be picked up for peanuts.

If the bike has a six speed block, I personally would be quite happy with that. Good quality 6sp blocks are still available and in touring ratios.

IMHO the crank you linked to is just 'flim-flam'; totally unnecessary and a waste of money. You would also have to change the bottom bracket and the right hand crank as that's some kind of spline design in your link. More unnecessisary expense.

Finally, I wouldn't bother with a dynohub. Instead, buy a set of usb rechargeable lights. They are so good.

[dim]

The only things I would change on that bike would be the saddle and the chainrings (to non Biopace). My preferred option would be 24/38/46.
Everything else looks just fine. Much like the set up on my bike(s) in fact.

At a push, I might change the 'Staghead' rear derailleur for a slant parallelogram design; Shimano 'light action' danglers work really well with those SunTour bar end gear levers ( so good in fact, that you don't need indexing) and can be picked up for peanuts.

If the bike has a six speed block, I personally would be quite happy with that. Good quality 6sp blocks are still available and in touring ratios.

IMHO the crank you linked to is just 'flim-flam'; totally unnecessary and a waste of money. You would also have to change the bottom bracket and the right hand crank as that's some kind of spline design in your link. More unnecessisary expense.

Finally, I wouldn't bother with a dynohub. Instead, buy a set of usb rechargeable lights. They are so good.

Thanks for that! .... I will research your recomendations

[Brucey]

the brake blocks you have look like fibrax ones; changing to kool stop would be a waste of time IMHO. Any post-mount brake block will fit.


I'd choose to ditch the biopace chainrings and (as soon as work was required) I'd change to a cassette hub at the rear.

First generation Deore XT 'deerhead' mechs are now collector's items so I might just fit something else and flog those. In addition you have the 'superplate' version of RD-700 there (I think) which works brilliantly but is not terribly long-lived or free of gremlins; these RDs are rare now because most of them ended their days tangled in the rear wheel.

cheers

[Bmblbzzz]

I'd be inclined to stick with the Biopace, never having ridden one, just to find out if I could actually feel the difference!

[dim]

Thanks for the suggestions ....Much appreciated!

Another question .... this frame is splined triple butted ... is this the same as the 1000 LT version (I've read that all the 1000 bikes that are triple butted are LT (Luxury Tourer) ... the earlier versions label stated 1000 LT

and the later models that were made with the splined triple butted tube had a label that just said '1000' and not 1000 LT

here's 2 more pics of my bike showing the white label that states it is splined, triple-butted .... you have to look carefully .... the label is in white on the down tube





so is this the LT version?

[slowster]

It seems to me that you're getting carried away with plans for spending a lot of money on an old, second hand, mass produced touring bike. A bike which you have not yet even taken possession of, let alone ridden.

To begin with, you probably just need to spend a bit of time riding the bike as it is, to see if you like it and it's going to suit your needs, before thinking about spending any money on it (and some of what you are proposing seems quite daft, e.g. rebuilding a 30+ year old rim with a Son hub).

You've mentioned lots of rather expensive fancy bits and pieces, but you've omitted two components which I suspect you might actually need to change early on: the bars and the stem. Handlebars fitted to many bikes of that era were often narrower than what would usually be fitted nowadays, and that looks to be the case with your Koga Miyata (although that might just be the angle of the photographs). The bars look like Cinelli, possibly Model 63 Campione del Mondo, and if they are indeed too narrow, you will need to replace the stem as well because any new bars will not fit that stem (bars and stems are no longer made with the 26.4mm clamp size which Cinelli used at that time).

[dim]

It seems to me that you're getting carried away with plans for spending a lot of money on an old, second hand, mass produced touring bike. A bike which you have not yet even taken possession of, let alone ridden.

To begin with, you probably just need to spend a bit of time riding the bike as it is, to see if you like it and it's going to suit your needs, before thinking about spending any money on it (and some of what you are proposing seems quite daft, e.g. rebuilding a 30+ year old rim with a Son hub).

You've mentioned lots of rather expensive fancy bits and pieces, but you've omitted two components which I suspect you might actually need to change early on: the bars and the stem. Handlebars fitted to many bikes of that era were often narrower than what would usually be fitted nowadays, and that looks to be the case with your Koga Miyata (although that might just be the angle of the photographs). The bars look like Cinelli, possibly Model 63 Campione del Mondo, and if they are indeed too narrow, you will need to replace the stem as well because any new bars will not fit that stem (bars and stems are no longer made with the 26.4mm clamp size which Cinelli used at that time).

thanks .... very valid points ...

I normally take my time and research before spending my money .... and as mentioned, I will be having a proper bike fit which will (hopefully) iron out things such as handlebar width, saddle position etc etc :

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on my current bike (Trek Emonda SL6), I use the Bontrager XXX Integrated handlebar/stem, and I use a 40cm bar width .... fits me perfect with no issues whatsoever on long rides. The bike fit will sort out the stem length, and if I need too change that, I will pop into the bike shop around the corner (Bicycle Ambulance) and get one off the shelf or buy one off ebay or elsewhere

I am normally a 52cm, and this frame is labeled as a 50cm, however the top tube is perfect for me 535mm (My trek is 534mm).... I used to own a Surly LHT which was a 50cm frame and that bike was one of the most comfortable bikes that I have owned ... top tube was 530mm but I used a longer stem ... I was planning on buying a 52cm Surly LHT and was told that when it comes to touring bikes, it's better to buy one size smaller as it is easier to handle when fully loaded (that was from Surly USA)

as for adding a SON dynamo hub to the existing rims, I'm in 2 minds at this stage and may just go for the new HED Belgium Plus wheels with a Son Deluxe dynamo hub (a dynamo hub and lights is a definate as I'm planning on riding long Audax rides such as PBP and LEL etc and cannot be buttocked with USB lights)

Although the bike is 40 years old, it was regarded by many as the best/finest touring bike (production bike) ever built and and some say that it is still the best touring bike ever made.... even the Late Bob Sheldon stated 'The mid-80s Miyata 1000 was possibly the finest off-the-shelf touring bike available at the time.

so, I have to make this bike fit me and if not, I will sell it on Ebay (for much much more than what I paid)

I have owned 2 other vintage Miyata bikes that I used as commuters .... Miyata Road Champ and a Miyata Gran Winner .... both bikes bought for very cheap off gumtree.... used them for several months and sold on for a profit .... very well made bicycles IMHO

most/many of the people in my area who ride Audax use old bikes such as Bob Jackson, Carlton, Raleigh etc ...

[Brucey]

looking at your photos some more I have a few more comments

1) you need new lever hoods; one of them is badly split
2) those look like 40h wheels to me. When the rims wear out don't expect them to be easy to replace.
3) the brakes look like the XT ones rather than the more commonplace BR-AT50 version.


Reading between the lines you seem to be planning to use this bike as an all-weather commuting bike. If you are, you should immediately abandon all ideas of this being 'a classic bike' or whatever; IMHO you need to be using stuff that is reliable, durable, and easy to replace when it goes wrong or wears out. You also need to be worrying about security if you are commuting; any vaguely posh or interesting bike is liable to be attractive to thieves.

Point 3 is important because the XT version is fitted with (black anodised) aluminium toe adjustment washers. These washers can corrode and crack if they see winter road salt etc. They are also a fairly low MA brake; this means it is important that you use high MA levers with them. This basically means you have a choice of a few levers which use exposed cables and even fewer that have aero cable routing.


if you plan to do many miles in all weathers then I'd suggest a different wheelset for sure; 36h front and rear with hub generator and cassette hub, using rims that you can renew easily when they wear out. Probably you will find the rear end is spaced 126mm; if so this will need to be reset wider to accept any modern hub. A compromise would be a 7s cassette hub.

cheers

[dim]

looking at your photos some more I have a few more comments

1) you need new lever hoods; one of them is badly split
2) those look like 40h wheels to me. When the rims wear out don't expect them to be easy to replace.
3) the brakes look like the XT ones rather than the more commonplace BR-AT50 version.


Reading between the lines you seem to be planning to use this bike as an all-weather commuting bike. If you are, you should immediately abandon all ideas of this being 'a classic bike' or whatever; IMHO you need to be using stuff that is reliable, durable, and easy to replace when it goes wrong or wears out. You also need to be worrying about security if you are commuting; any vaguely posh or interesting bike is liable to be attractive to thieves.

Point 3 is important because the XT version is fitted with (black anodised) aluminium toe adjustment washers. These washers can corrode and crack if they see winter road salt etc. They are also a fairly low MA brake; this means it is important that you use high MA levers with them. This basically means you have a choice of a few levers which use exposed cables and even fewer that have aero cable routing.


if you plan to do many miles in all weathers then I'd suggest a different wheelset for sure; 36h front and rear with hub generator and cassette hub, using rims that you can renew easily when they wear out. Probably you will find the rear end is spaced 126mm; if so this will need to be reset wider to accept any modern hub. A compromise would be a 7s cassette hub.

cheers

Thank you ... very good info and I will have a very close look at your sugestions ....

Security is always an issue here in Cambridge (I've read that we have one of the highest bike thefts in the UK) .... I have the Wiggle Elite insurance for my Trek and will add insurance for the Miyata (I'm fortunate that I am allowed to take my bike indoors at my place of work)....

[dim]

Probably you will find the rear end is spaced 126mm; if so this will need to be reset wider to accept any modern hub. A compromise would be a 7s cassette hub.

cheers

thanks .... another question: from what I have read, the rear spacing is probably 126mm .... if my LBS increases this to 130mm does he have to 'cold set' it?

[slowster]

Although the bike is 40 years old, it was regarded by many as the best/finest touring bike (production bike) ever built and and some say that it is still the best touring bike ever made.... even the Late Bob Sheldon stated 'The mid-80s Miyata 1000 was possibly the finest off-the-shelf touring bike available at the time.

If, as I suspect, those claims for the bike are mostly/all from the USA, I would not set quite so much store by them. I don't think that there was the choice of good quality touring bikes and brands in the USA that existed in the UK. It may have been the best/finest touring bike by US market standards, but that probably says more about the poor choice of touring bikes in the USA (and why for decades many US cycle tourists have ordered bikes and frames from UK builders).

[dim]

Although the bike is 40 years old, it was regarded by many as the best/finest touring bike (production bike) ever built and and some say that it is still the best touring bike ever made.... even the Late Bob Sheldon stated 'The mid-80s Miyata 1000 was possibly the finest off-the-shelf touring bike available at the time.

If, as I suspect, those claims for the bike are mostly/all from the USA, I would not set quite so much store by them. I don't think that there was the choice of good quality touring bikes and brands in the USA that existed in the UK. It may have been the best/finest touring bike by US market standards, but that probably says more about the poor choice of touring bikes in the USA (and why for decades many US cycle tourists have ordered bikes and frames from UK builders).

fair point .... the Americans favour the Miyata, Univega, Schwinn, Panasonic, Lotus etc as they were freely available in the USA

I really like the older UK bikes, especially the Bob Jackson, Carlton, Mercian etc ....

after I get this bike sorted, I will search for a vintage Bob Jackson racing Tricycle:




but I wanted an older bike that can take wider tyres (The Miyata can fit 40mm with the correct mudguards) and as I said, I was really keen for a Bob Jackson World Traveller frame

at the end of the day, I got the Miyata for a lot less than my original budget.... the bike can be modernized but I will prefer to keep it as standard as possible... I know that I will need to spend a bit to get it sorted but I will have cash left over

I have a fast modern bike if I need to do a quicker ride or an Audax where I want to go faster, I have Dura Ace Di2, etc with Miss Grape lightweight bags

this Miyata weighs more than 12kg from what I have read

[Brucey]

thanks .... another question: from what I have read, the rear spacing is probably 126mm .... if my LBS increases this to 130mm does he have to 'cold set' it?

yes. And once you do this the original wheelset won't fit any more. Hence my suggestion of using a 7s cassette hub; these can be spaced to 126-128mm. You can always have the frame reset wider at a later date if you want to.

cheers

[dim]

thanks .... another question: from what I have read, the rear spacing is probably 126mm .... if my LBS increases this to 130mm does he have to 'cold set' it?

yes. And once you do this the original wheelset won't fit any more. Hence my suggestion of using a 7s cassette hub; these can be spaced to 126-128mm. You can always have the frame reset wider at a later date if you want to.

cheers

thank you!