Another thread about hard tyres to fit and tyre levers

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LollyKat
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Re: Another thread about hard tyres to fit and tyre levers

Postby LollyKat » 22 May 2019, 9:50pm

My husband broke a brand new Pedro the first time he used it....just saying! :shock: (And this was at home, with plenty of time.) I don't have great hand strength so sometimes carry a Koolstop Bead Jack - it's a bit bulky but better than having to walk miles home.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Another thread about hard tyres to fit and tyre levers

Postby Tangled Metal » 22 May 2019, 10:17pm

Thanks for the recommendations for levers and gadgets to get difficult tyres on. I think I might invest in something like those suggestions. No point struggling when when there's something available to help.

BTW I like the schwalbe levers especially the way they can clip onto the rim and hold the bead in the rim while you work he other side in. Beats the wire, cable tie or strap solution IMHO if it works.

Brucey
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Re: Another thread about hard tyres to fit and tyre levers

Postby Brucey » 22 May 2019, 10:59pm

years ago steel tyre levers were commonplace. Perfectly usable ones still turn up in cheap puncture repair outfits even now. If you want a cut above those then Carradice do a pretty set (with spoon ends that are big enough to double as ersatz cutlery if needs be).

Image
https://www.carradice.co.uk/products/tools/carradice-tyre-levers-set-of-3

BITD the weight weeny in me made me buy some Minoura aluminium tyre levers

Image

but I managed to resist the colours.... they are not as strong as steel but they work OK-ish; I found the shape of mine (slightly different to those pictured) tended to nip tubes more easily than some.

For workshop use Park Tool TL5

Image

are nicely made and are long enough to provide monster leverage if required. No spoke hooks but I daresay those could be improvised if needs be.

cheers
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NUKe
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Re: Another thread about hard tyres to fit and tyre levers

Postby NUKe » 23 May 2019, 12:06am

Tangled Metal wrote:Gatorskin tyres! I thought marathon pluses had the rep for hard tyres to fit but these have proved worse. For me Vittoria hypers were harder than m+ tyres but both of those I got on without using tyre levers.

Gatorskin tyres, someone got them on using levers for me. Cue puncture. Actually a patch that had come loose. So tyre off, new tube and back on for tomorrow's commute. Not as easy as it sounds. First off the Gatorskin bead looked like it was against the inside of the rim next to the rim tape. Seriously looked undersized. Is that even possible?

Two big Aldi tool kit tyre levers and a cheap little one. Snap, snap = two levers broken and a struggle to get the broken tips out of the tyre. Hunt for ancient metal levers, lost, so back to remaining large Aldi lever and another cheapo lever that's thicker. Tyre eventually came off using only two levers. It got easier and tyre now fixed.

Funnily enough the cheapo tyre lever was the strongest. It came with a Debenhams Xmas cycle kit that consisted of a puncture kit with a cycle decorated mug. I put that tyre lever into my commuting emergency repair kit now. I have two topeak levers in there and one other good lever. All those are wide and thin, just like the ones that broke.

My questions are whether gators kins get easier to fix with each time you change an inner tube? Also, what tyre levers are unbreakable or nearly unbreakable?

I've read about schwalbe, park tools and Pedro's are highly recommended. Do you agree? Are they thin? Are they wide? I am not sure think levers are strong enough. Any others? Is it worth getting better levers? Or is it better getting easier tyres to change? If the latter, which up to about £30 tyres are worth getting (700x32mm)?

I personally never had an issue with gator skins, and could get them off by hand before I mangled a couple of fingers (not changing tyres). Sometimes cheap inner tubes can make taking tyres off harder as they thicker and bulkier. If you don’t have an issue getting the first bead over the rim, then the second should go over as well, gatorskins shouldn’t need tyre levers to put on. Hard shells are a bit less pliable. It could be as Brucey points out the rim is slightly oversized. But if you work the bead into the centre you should be able to pop the last bit over by hand.
NUKe
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Eyebrox
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Re: Another thread about hard tyres to fit and tyre levers

Postby Eyebrox » 23 May 2019, 1:15am

Halfords still do steel tyre levers - £3.50.

Screenshot_20190523-011302.png

Tangled Metal
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Re: Another thread about hard tyres to fit and tyre levers

Postby Tangled Metal » 23 May 2019, 8:51am

These are the first tyres I've had any difficulty getting onto the rims. It's unlikely to be the rims being oversized unless all the marathon +, Vittoria hypers, PX own brand CX and other tyres I've used are oversized. I've managed to use only thumbs with the m+ tyres from new for example. They're not considered the easiest of tyres to put on I believe. The difference in this one tyre make and model is significant. I've never needed to use a tyre lever to put the tyre over the rim before in all my years of changing tyres. It's what I was taught not to do as a kid by my dad.

BTW on a side issue, I've noticed some tyres with similar widths and the same pressure flatten out more than others. My rear tyre has this gatorskin tyre on it and I'm running at about 80 to 85 psi on it (not an accurate gauge because it's on the Joe blow pump). Previous tyre was a hyper at the same tyre size. This gatorskin seems to flatten out more. The same with the PX CX tyres in a wider 37/38mm width compared to m+ tyres.

Is this likely to be my imagination or is there something about certain tyres that they flatten more when at the same width, pressure and loading as other tyres?

I've looked at tyre pressure charts and based on 86kg plus 15kg bike plus rack, guards, etc and a pannier containing say 3kg weight and a 40/60% load split you get 64kg on the rear wheel. This gives about 80psi for a 32mm tyre. That for me flattens out too much. I had my front hypers on about 85psi and it felt good on roads but I dropped a lot on rougher canal towpath to 65psi or less. I must admit I prefer a low front tyre pressure but the back higher than recommended. Front tyres don't flatten even at below recommended but rear flattens a lot even slightly above recommended. Wondering if it's that I prefer / need a stronger rear tyre. Is it advised to mix tyre models front and rear? I am now but both 32mm, hyper front and gators rear. Not too dissimilar tyres I think.

What's your view? Tyre pressure is probably personal right? Go with what you like.

colin54
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Re: Another thread about hard tyres to fit and tyre levers

Postby colin54 » 3 May 2020, 9:36pm

Tangled Metal wrote:The blue schwalbe levers have a feature that allows you to clip it onto the rim close to where you're trying to get the tyre fitted. This locks that part if the tyre into the rim so you can work the tyre over from the other side. Acts like an easy to use cable tie lock.


I've tried these out recently, Schwalbe having stopped making the previous model (new and old pictured together).The little rim clip feature is useful but fiddly to use, you have to spring the plastic tab out of the centre of the lever (shown in the youtube video link), I think you would curse it in the cold or rain. I tried them on some new old style Marathons yesterday and they worked OK. I got the second tyre on by hand though, just by holding the tyre in the well and massaging on, so probably not the hardest test. Pictured on the Schwalbe site and on a youtube review of them they use the clip feature and then lever on with one of the other levers which seems to be missing the point somewhat. Has anyone tried them on a really tight tyre yet? I used two and then worked the tyre into the rim well using them as keepers instead of a toe strap. I use the three fairly close together to get the tyre off as they are made from quite flexible plastic.
P1130310.JPG

P1130314.JPG

P1130315.JPG

I think I'll keep the old ones on the bike (just because I like the narrower ends) with some straps and the new ones in the workshop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wspSS_LX_Y
https://www.schwalbe.com/en/zubehoer

Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Another thread about hard tyres to fit and tyre levers

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 3 May 2020, 9:47pm

Use your body weight to put them over the rim. Stand with the rim on a soft surface ( carpet or something) at an angle ( one flange slightly lifted the other flange rooted to the carpet / soft surface )Push the tyres over the rim using your body weight over the majority of the rim, making sure you push down equally on each side. When it gets difficult, fold the bead toward the rim, and push down hard using your full body weight, and thumbs. If it doesn’t quite go, stick a plastic lever under the bit that won’t go, and swear a lot.

mattsccm
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Re: Another thread about hard tyres to fit and tyre levers

Postby mattsccm » 3 May 2020, 10:11pm

Best levers ever used - freebies with Cycling plus. If things are really tough take tiny bites even a lever thickness. Cycle tyres are easy compared with a 5" motorcross tyre onto a 17" rim.

MikeDee
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Re: Another thread about hard tyres to fit and tyre levers

Postby MikeDee » 4 May 2020, 1:58am

Metal tire levers? I wouldn't. Too easy to damage the rims with them.

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andrew_s
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Re: Another thread about hard tyres to fit and tyre levers

Postby andrew_s » 4 May 2020, 3:55am

It's a myth.

I've been using steel levers for over 30 years and not damaged a rim yet.

Best steel levers are flat like Brucey's Carradice ones up the way, but even with cheap and nasty round stock steel levers I've failed to damage the rim.
Workshop ones like the Park (same post) or Lezyne Sabre are better, but too big for the road.

Plastic levers are OK for easy tyres, but give them something difficult and they'll bend, break, or be thick enough to make difficult almost impossible.


Not mentioned so far in this topic is the Var tyre lever.
It's no better than any other plastic lever for removing a tight tyre, but makes a reasonable portable alternative to the Koolstop bead jack for refitting a difficult tyre; enough so that I add one to the tool kit if I know a tyre is tight.

francovendee
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Re: Another thread about hard tyres to fit and tyre levers

Postby francovendee » 4 May 2020, 8:45am

andrew_s wrote:It's a myth.

I've been using steel levers for over 30 years and not damaged a rim yet.

Best steel levers are flat like Brucey's Carradice ones up the way, but even with cheap and nasty round stock steel levers I've failed to damage the rim.
Workshop ones like the Park (same post) or Lezyne Sabre are better, but too big for the road.

Plastic levers are OK for easy tyres, but give them something difficult and they'll bend, break, or be thick enough to make difficult almost impossible.


Not mentioned so far in this topic is the Var tyre lever.
It's no better than any other plastic lever for removing a tight tyre, but makes a reasonable portable alternative to the Koolstop bead jack for refitting a difficult tyre; enough so that I add one to the tool kit if I know a tyre is tight.


I'm with you there. After breaking two sets of plastic levers I bought some metal ones. I dressed the ends with a file and emery paper to get them super smooth. I've never damaged a tube using them and deal with difficult tyres easily.

st599_uk
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Re: Another thread about hard tyres to fit and tyre levers

Postby st599_uk » 4 May 2020, 9:00am

I watched a video in which a chap from Spa showed how to easily fit Marathon tyres. Really easy to do compared to my previous attempts. Requires 2 straps or bits of string.
A novice learning...
“the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.”

MikeDee
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Re: Another thread about hard tyres to fit and tyre levers

Postby MikeDee » 4 May 2020, 4:15pm

andrew_s wrote:It's a myth.

I've been using steel levers for over 30 years and not damaged a rim yet.

Best steel levers are flat like Brucey's Carradice ones up the way, but even with cheap and nasty round stock steel levers I've failed to damage the rim.
Workshop ones like the Park (same post) or Lezyne Sabre are better, but too big for the road.

Plastic levers are OK for easy tyres, but give them something difficult and they'll bend, break, or be thick enough to make difficult almost impossible.


Not mentioned so far in this topic is the Var tyre lever.
It's no better than any other plastic lever for removing a tight tyre, but makes a reasonable portable alternative to the Koolstop bead jack for refitting a difficult tyre; enough so that I add one to the tool kit if I know a tyre is tight.


I chipped the hard anodizing on a rim edge some years ago, so I quit using metal levers. IMO, by using proper technique (i.e., work the tire beads into the rim well to provide slack), I found that plastic tire levers are more than adequate for any tire I've used.

Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Another thread about hard tyres to fit and tyre levers

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 4 May 2020, 4:28pm

andrew_s wrote:It's a myth.

I've been using steel levers for over 30 years and not damaged a rim yet.



It’s not a myth. I wouldn’t suggest using metal levers to get a tight tyre on a Carbon rim as a particularly clever idea.