Wahoo Elemnt - simple question

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Revolution
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Wahoo Elemnt - simple question

Postby Revolution » 7 Jun 2019, 10:24am

Hi,
I have a Garmin Edge Touring GPS which has let me down so much that I have started looking for an alternative device.
My needs are as far as I'm concerned, fairly simple - I create routes using RideGPS which I then load into my device and then follow them. I don't ever ask my GPS to create its own route. Hence my interest in a Wahoo Elemnt.
I have read several reviews on the Elemnt which all seem fairly positive.
My simple question is this:- Can you start cycling a route half-way through and still get turn by turn guidance?
for instance a route of say 100miles is loaded and you stop for the night at 50miles, can you turn the Elemnt on in the morning and resume your route?
With the Garmin this isn't possible and still have Turn-by-turn notification.

Bez
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt - simple question

Postby Bez » 7 Jun 2019, 10:48am

I believe so, but I've not used a Wahoo for a while so can't check for sure. But the main reason for my comment is that I'm fairly confident that this also works fine on Garmin devices. (I also use RWGPS, and used the Touring/800 for a long time; FWIW I'm now on the Explore, which suits me very well.) In what way do you find it fails?

Note that TBT guidance is handled very differently by the Elemnt/Bolt and the Touring (or other map-enabled Garmins). The Elemnt just uses course points, which need to be pre-populated by RWGPS (there is an option where you can turn this on or off) and the map data is purely visual—the navigation is actually breadcrumb navigation, it just looks like proper TBT; the Touring generates its own directions from routable map data.

If you're interested in Wahoo and want navigation, I'd suggest the Roam as a better option than the Elemnt or Bolt.

softlips
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt - simple question

Postby softlips » 7 Jun 2019, 11:11am

Yes, I believed it will. Although I’ve not tested it to do so.

I have the Elemnt Bolt - just moved over from Garmin. I was pleasantly surprised to find (on here) you can change routes, end routes, start new routes and record the whole thing as one ride. I’ve tested it and it works. However I’ve only had the map on the screen and not had the turn by turn alerts switched on. The map is very good though and in 150 miles I only made one mistake which the device instantly told me about.

The Wahoo is a fantastic piece of kit, you can plan the ride on a tablet or phone and it instantly appears as an option on the device. The battery longevity is excellent too although I must confess I had no battery issues unlike many on my Garmin. I just got sick of the Garmin wanting to update software every week and having to often manually upload rides.

HobbesOnTour
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt - simple question

Postby HobbesOnTour » 7 Jun 2019, 11:25am

The simple answer to your simple question is to test it! :) Not over 100 miles, though!

I have not done exactly as you have.

I have done similar with a tcx file (tbt) imported from cycle.travel.
I have done similar with a gpx file (no tbt).

I used one gpx file from Hull to Holyhead, going "off course" every evening to camp, and rejoining every morning. Ditto from Scotland to Hull. No issues at all.

Sometimes there are variances between different apps (RWGPS/Komoot) that become more evident in unusual circumstances such as yours, so what might work with one person may not with another due to some unseen difference. Hence the need to test it.

I rarely use TBT. Can I ask why you find it advantageous?

As fro the Roam, latest info is that there is an issue with mounts and no new units shipping until July. Plus, it seems overpriced for what it is.

Having tried out a (older model) Garmin Touring unit, I find my Elemnt to be far superior and simply more reliable.

althebike
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt - simple question

Postby althebike » 7 Jun 2019, 11:42am

When you turn the elemnt on it should ask you if you would like to continue the route. If your route does not appear on the unit, you can reselect the route .
If you are off route by a few yards, for example in a cafe, the route may not display until you are actually back on it. It may not tell you which way to go from the cafe, you may only get a route line, but after cycling a few yards back on route, it will work out where it is and continue with the turn by turn directions. New routes constructed in ride gps can load automatically , unlike my garmin tourer which needed a cable connection to the computer to transfer new routes.

toontra
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt - simple question

Postby toontra » 7 Jun 2019, 1:54pm

Simple answer - yes. On several occasions I've stopped the Bolt (no reason why the Element would be different) mid-route and re-started it. I usually reload the route just to be on the safe side - not sure if this is necessary.

Note: the black arrows showing the route don't show immediately on the map page - more of a shaded line - but after a few seconds of riding this changes back to the solid black arrow route and you get turn-by-turn notifications.
Last edited by toontra on 7 Jun 2019, 2:56pm, edited 2 times in total.

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RickH
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt - simple question

Postby RickH » 7 Jun 2019, 2:45pm

As an aside I've rarely had a problem with picking up a planned route part way through using a Garmin (Edge 605 & latterly Edge 1000). The times I have had problems I think it was more to do with how the route had been initially plotted. There can be "hard" points (I don't know the technical term) added to the route that the navigation "insists" you go through (could be usefully if you are doing an event with checkpoints you need to present yourself at). If you use BikeHike & use the Drag option to alter a route the points it adds are hard ones. If you don't pass through them for any reason, then you lose any turn-by-turn.

cycle.travel & RidewithGPS seem to do this when you alter routes by dragging (although, from my experience, RwGPS will happily route you straight down busy A roads on one hand & unmade bridleways across fields on the other! :? )

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Revolution
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt - simple question

Postby Revolution » 7 Jun 2019, 3:00pm

Thanks everyone for the useful info.
THE main problems i've had with the Garmin are its low battery life (4hrs using navigation) and regular and unexplained failure of TBT mid-ride. I think its fair to say that a fault free navigated ride is the exception with my Garmin.
In my experience the TBT does not resume if you start navigating mid course and by plugging the unit into a USB charger after 4 hours the unit switches off and so you have to re-load the course so this happens all the time.
I like the TBT feature as it means you don't have to be continually focused on the screen and can be alerted only when you need to make a turn.
It certainly sounds as though a Wahoo Elemnt or Bolt would suit me - just need to save up my pocket money first. Yes I would test it if I bought one but It makes sense to ask around first so thanks again for the gen.

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Re: Wahoo Elemnt - simple question

Postby Bez » 7 Jun 2019, 3:19pm

It sounds very much as if you have a duff copy of the Touring. Among other Garmins I've had a Touring, a Touring Plus and an 800 (all essentially the same thing) and haven't had the problems you've had with any of them. I used to consistently get at least 9 hours if I was using the map screen all the time and around 11 hours if I was on the data screens (using TBT navigation in both cases, with the map popups for junctions). In fact the only problem I ever had, as far as I recall, was that one of the Tourings once forgot all its settings and I had to reconfigure it. Other than that I found the Touring to be a very trustworthy piece of kit.

I used the Bolt (to all intents and purposes identical to the Elemnt, which I also tried a year later, but had issues with the accompanying iPhone app to the extent where it was literally unusable) some time ago and found that whilst some things were very well executed, for me the navigation wasn't a patch on Garmin's implementation. My experience and subjective opinion, for what it's worth, is here:

https://mashing53.cyclyc.com/wahoo-navi ... or-failed/

Some of its shortcomings are—to a greater or lesser extent—addressed by the Roam (eg it has the ability to point you back to your course when you deviate) but not all. I kept my Touring, and later upgraded to the Explore, which is an excellent unit, markedly better than previous Garmins in many areas. Since then I've tried the 530 and realised how much easier life is with the touchscreen instead of buttons (note that the Explore's touchscreen is light years ahead of the Tourings, and the usability of Wahoo's button interface is generally significantly better than Garmin's… also I found the Bolt's buttons more responsive and easier to press than the Elemnt's).

If budget is a major issue then I would perhaps consider a secondhand Touring to replace your own… chances are for about £80 minus whatever you can sell yours for you'll be able to double your battery life and probably rid yourselves of the other bugs, and at worst you could just resell it for the same. But I realise that probably doesn't seem an appealing option when you happen to have a lemon :)

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Revolution
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt - simple question

Postby Revolution » 8 Jun 2019, 5:03pm

Thanks Bez for pointing me to your 'Navigation Nailed or Failed' blog - very informative to have someone test side-by-side Garmin & Wahoo in exactly the criteria I'm interested in ie navigation rather than fitness metrics.
I can see that the off course issues with the Wahoo could be a real pain but to be honest I find the Garmin unhelpful when I deviate off course. This often happens when in an unfamiliar town where there are lots of turns close together. Part of my problem is the lack of trust I have for the Garmin.
Just out of interest though here is an email exchange I had with Garmin-
Me loaded a course then turned off device half way through the ride to save power. When I turned back on the navigation alerts and auto zoom to show turns failed to work. Is there a way to start navigating a course half way through and have these navigation features?
Them I would recommend a Master Reset on your Edge. This will reset it back to its factory default settings and wipe any data currently stored in the device, so if at all possible, please upload any important data to Garmin Connect before proceeding.
Me Before I go ahead with a Master Reset, can you just confirm that a Garmin Edge Touring should provide navigation alerts when a pre-loaded course has been started not from the start point of the course but part way through?
Them Thank you for contacting Garmin Europe. I apologize for the confusion. Please be advised that there is no way to start a course half way through. :!:

Ellieb
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt - simple question

Postby Ellieb » 8 Jun 2019, 5:12pm

Ummm. I'm not sure about that. I've got an Edge 800 & a 1000. I'm pretty sure I've had no issue with starting a course half waay round.

robing
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt - simple question

Postby robing » 8 Jun 2019, 5:35pm

Yes. I have used the Wahoo Bolt for LEJOG and Lon Las Cymru and I had a route loaded for the whole thing and picked it up each day. Although I mostly use Komoot I do use RWGPS too and it works fine for TBT.

I had the Garmin Edge 820 Explore and it drove me nuts - it took FOREVER to upload a route, the battery life was poor (don't even mention the touch screen) and the screen isn't that clear in sunlight. Luckily I returned it while still able to and got a Wahoo Bolt instead. I haven't looked back. The battery life is excellent, the screen much clearer in sunlight.

Other features I like are the ease of zooming in and out and also if you want to change your route you just whip your phone out and transfer the route to the Bolt (obviously you need a data signal for this). Plus you get free worldwide maps - just download the countries you want as needed.

geocycle
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt - simple question

Postby geocycle » 8 Jun 2019, 5:37pm

I have moved to wahoo and much prefer it to the Garmin I’ve owned. Crude in some ways but works. I do have a Garmin Edge Touring that I’m planning on selling when I get around to it.

Bez
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt - simple question

Postby Bez » 8 Jun 2019, 8:59pm

I think when they say “Please be advised that there is no way to start a course half way through” there may be a bit of confusion.

You can’t get it to calculate the navigation from the halfway point as such; it will always think you want to start at the beginning and will calculate a route accordingly.

However, I don’t think that means it won’t do what you want. When it has a GPS lock and the route, it will figure out you’re not at the start and will ask whether you want to navigate to the start. Say no. Then when you actually join the route I’m fairly certain it will figure out where you are and pick up the turn directions from there.

If I get a chance I’ll do a test to make sure :)

Bez
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt - simple question

Postby Bez » 8 Jun 2019, 11:17pm

OK, just tested it.

Created a route starting a few miles to the north of here and ending a few miles to the south, passing the end of my road. Downloaded the route and waited for a GPS fix, then started the route. At this point it asked me whether to navigate to the start of the route; I declined. It calculated its directions, then popped up the "off course" notification. Then I set off down the road, towards the route. When I got to the end of the road I got the "course found" notification, then when I tuned out of the road and onto the course I got the correct next turn at the top of the screen, just as it would be had I arrived at the same location having ridden the first half of the route.

So… all good on that front.

The caveat, of course, is that I currently have an Explore and not a Touring, but: (a) I'm pretty sure the Touring and all other Garmins I've had before have all behaved this way, and (b) I don't think Garmin's navigation has changed much since I started using it nearly 20 years ago, so while it's possible they behave differently, I think it's vanishingly unlikely.

Are you on the latest firmware? A factory reset and a firmware upgrade/reinstall might help it behave better (although it's less likely it'll fix the battery life issue… that might just be a tired battery).