Hub gear for Moulton TSR2

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gazza_d
Posts: 94
Joined: 30 Oct 2016, 8:20am

Hub gear for Moulton TSR2

Postby gazza_d » 15 Jun 2019, 7:23am

This is one for the hivemind, although I suspect an alternative to current solution may not exist

I have a Moulton TSR2 which currently has a SRAM P5 retrofitted in. But I don;t like it because
1. It's rattley and noisy which to be fair is not as bad as the SA S2C fitted when new, and it probably just needs a bit of fresh grease in there
2. The gear change feels a bit agricultural, but that's possibly because I'm spoilt by the silky Alfine 11 in the other Moulton
3. The Connection to the hub is complex and feels a bit fragile.It has 2 rods, one inside the other and an odd shaped bit of plastic. All a bit fiddly

I'm wondering if anything else is out there. SA make a 5 speed with coaster, but it's 135mm OLN, and the TSR2 is 120mm, and isn;t going to spread easily.
I found an 8 speed nexus with coaster, but again it's 135OLN
SA do an 8 speed with 120mm OLN, but it doesn't have a brake, and the TSR isn;t sorted for a rear brake

Is there anything out there other than the P5? Or is a case of getting the frame respaced (probably very difficult) or getting it modified to take a rear brake and then go for the SA 8 speed?

ElCani
Posts: 155
Joined: 5 Mar 2015, 11:24am

Re: Hub gear for Moulton TSR2

Postby ElCani » 15 Jun 2019, 9:17am

According to Sheldon, certain Nexus 7 or 8 speeds can be re-spaced to 126mm. I don't think you'd need to get the frame modified for a rear brake, you can just use a P-clip on the LH chainstay for the reaction arm.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/nexus.html

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Mick F
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Re: Hub gear for Moulton TSR2

Postby Mick F » 15 Jun 2019, 9:56am

I bought a SA 3sp hub for my Moulton TSR and it came as 135mm.
Removing one of the two nuts on the LH side, reduced it to 130mm.
No doubt removing the the second nut will make is 125mm.

Neither of the nuts is actually necessary to lock the LH cone.

This is the website for it. Note that it is shown with one nut on the left = 130mm.
http://www.sturmey-archer.com/en/produc ... rf3-silver

Note part No18 and 18a
Mine came with two No18 nuts.
http://www.sturmey-archer.com/files/cat ... CS-RK3.pdf
Mick F. Cornwall

Brucey
Posts: 35850
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Hub gear for Moulton TSR2

Postby Brucey » 15 Jun 2019, 12:28pm

word of warning; if you are sticking with a coaster brake then not only are the options somewhat less in number but when there are two nuts on the left side of the hub most often these are necessary to keep the bearings in adjustment. This means that whilst some rim brake hubs can be respaced narrower, coaster brake variants of the same hub may not be respaceable in the same way.

FWIW if the clickbox and rods on the SRAM hub are the main thing putting you off (and they should do, it is a crap arrangement and the spare parts are shortly going to dry up entirely because SRAM have stopped making any IGH stuff) then note that it is possible to convert the hub to use a left side pushrod and a right side toggle chain, a bit like how Sachs 5s hubs were eons ago. You can control this with two controls; the right side a 3s control and the left side can be a friction control or another 3s control. A similar conversion is also possible in SRAM 7s hubs and obviously the left side control needs to be a 3s control in this case. The conversion requires some moderately complicated work inside the hub in both cases, but leaves the hub able to use replaceable (i.e. non-SRAM) parts externally, including the toggle chain.

FWIW of the currently available hubs I'd suggest an X-RD3 hub ought to be a good choice, but you will need to have a second handlebar lever fitted. IIRC the X-RD3 can be built narrower than (recent) SA 5s hubs.

[edit; I just checked an X-RD5(W) and it is about 129mm-130mm once fitted with the (necessary IMHO) tab washer on the RHS that stops the RH cone winding itself into the hub. You can fit slimmer locknuts each side and win back a couple of mm that way. X-RD3 has a narrower hubshell so is also narrower overall.]

cheers
Last edited by Brucey on 15 Jun 2019, 11:25pm, edited 1 time in total.
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brynpoeth
Posts: 11241
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Hub gear for Moulton TSR2

Postby brynpoeth » 15 Jun 2019, 4:42pm

I have one of those hubs, seven speed with a hollow rod a solid rod and that queer red plastic thing (what if one loses it?)
Had to move the wheel to tension the chain
I did manage to reassemble it
Entertainer, kidult, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
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Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Hub gear for Moulton TSR2

Postby Brucey » 15 Jun 2019, 11:46pm

for now, you can still buy the S7 gear rod set which includes the red plastic widget ('locating sleeve' in SRAM-speak), but it is amongst a dwindling selection of SRAM IGH parts.

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/sram-hub-gear-spares/

The five speed hub is similar in principle but the rods are different

The skinny pushrod has to slide cleanly through both the hollow rod and the hole in the toggle key that the hollow rod engages with. IME the slightest damage to the skinny rod means it doesn't push cleanly on its toggle (which is closer to the left side of the hub than the right, and there is no location feature for the rod end, either...) and then the gears are not selected properly any more; it is a bit like expecting to turn the lights on in an adjacent room by poking the switch using a snooker cue through the keyhole. Only you aren't allow to look and the keyhole is moving too.... The hollow rod tends to get mangled so that the clickbox doesn't push it cleanly any more either. It isn't a terribly good arrangement.

cheers
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gazza_d
Posts: 94
Joined: 30 Oct 2016, 8:20am

Re: Hub gear for Moulton TSR2

Postby gazza_d » 16 Jun 2019, 8:15am

Thanks for the replies. All very helpful. I do have a spare pushrod set and a couple of the plastic thingys, but the whole thing is a bit kludgy.

Converting the P5 to control from both sides is probably beyond my pay grade to be honest.
Really I want a slightly wider range of gears than 3 (although that's sufficient for the commute)
It's looking like either:
1. Fitting a caliper brake. the bridge is drilled, but for a mudguard bolt, but may take a caliper if the drop isn't too large (I'll need to measure). I could then have a slightly larger selection of hubs to play with.
2. Sourcing a different rear triangle or resetting the current to take 135mm hubs (which would be fun if even possible)

The TSR2 was purchased as a commuter and it was only Moulton option to squeeze under the then 1K C2W limit. It's a fun bike

Brucey
Posts: 35850
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Hub gear for Moulton TSR2

Postby Brucey » 16 Jun 2019, 10:57am

if you are fitting a rim brake to the rear of an IGH-equipped moulton, it is slightly more awkward than normal because the brake cannot be mounted at ninety degrees to the dropout slots. This means the brake blocks need to have a similar range of movement as the hub does in the dropouts, else you can't tension the chain and have the brakes work at the same time.

If you want a wider range of gears in an IGH then there are not that many options; seven or eight speed hubs mostly; a red band Nexus 8 has to be high up on the list of possibles. However with some IGHs it is also possible to implement a hybrid gearing system (similar to the Brompton one) using a conventional derailleur. This also means the rear wheel can stay put which eases the rear rim brake issue. The Sturmey 5s (W) hub ain't perfect either but it does give a wide range of gears when configured as a 2x5 system. You will need to install a BWR type driver so that it will accept two sprockets.

cheers
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AM7
Posts: 282
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Location: North West Essex

Re: Hub gear for Moulton TSR2

Postby AM7 » 20 Jun 2019, 9:08pm

I fitted a Sturmey XRC5(W) [EDIT - actually an SRC5 hub as pointed out by Brucey below] to my TSR2 a few years ago. Fitted with the under bar ‘rapidfire’ type shifter, it was a nice upgrade. Out of the box it was spaced at 127mm but it wasn’t too much hassle to get it down to 122mm which I was able to squeeze into the TSRs dropouts. I don’t think Sturmey make this mode anymore, but I see SJS still sell the steel shelled equivalent - the S5C.
Last edited by AM7 on 21 Jun 2019, 8:50am, edited 1 time in total.

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Hub gear for Moulton TSR2

Postby Brucey » 20 Jun 2019, 9:51pm

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AM7
Posts: 282
Joined: 18 Jul 2014, 10:24pm
Location: North West Essex

Re: Hub gear for Moulton TSR2

Postby AM7 » 21 Jun 2019, 8:48am



Yes that's the one I meant! Thanks Brucey :)