How many times can you rewaterproof Gore?

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mnichols
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How many times can you rewaterproof Gore?

Post by mnichols »

Just did a short two day tour in the rain and my previously excellent Gore Active Waterproof let me down

I think I've had it 8 or 9 years, and with two tours coming up over the next few weeks, I don't know whether to just rewaterproof it again, or if it's time for a new one - i'd rather not find out on tour

So, is there a limit to how many times you can rewaterproof a Gore jacket?

One thing I think I've noticed over the years when I keep washing in the NikWax is that it doesn't seem as breathable as it was - am I imagining that?
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Paulatic
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Re: How many times can you rewaterproof Gore?

Post by Paulatic »

I’ve a Pertex about 6yo been washed many times still waterproof
I’ve a Goretex cycling jacket towards 20 yo which despite its age I think I’ve only washed it a handful of times but still waterproof.
Both washed in soapflakes never ever had a nikwax wash or spray. I always thought it’s about keeping the holes free and clean and not blocking them up with some pva type stuff?
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MarcusT
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Re: How many times can you rewaterproof Gore?

Post by MarcusT »

Gore Tex is a membrane laminate and don't think it can be "re-waterproofed"
It is usually bonded to the internal of the clothing. Now, you can use a waterproofing substance to treat the nylon shell and that will work, but you lose the breath-ability of the Gore Tex membrane.

But I could be behind the times and tech has moved on
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PH
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Re: How many times can you rewaterproof Gore?

Post by PH »

There is an issue - the membrane needs to be kept clean to breathe and the reproofing attaches better if you haven't washed off all the remains of the previous lot off the shell. The reproofing is about getting the water to run off rather than making the fabric waterproof, once it's wetted out water will find a way in even though the fabric is probably as waterproof as it's always been. It's simple to test by suspending an area without seams over a bucket or bowl, making a dip and filling with water.
If you can't get the reproofer to stick and stay on it's probably time to get a new one. Before you do, have you tried heating it up a bit? That sometimes rejuvenates any water repellent. I use a hair dryer, but I've seen tumble drying on low or a gentle iron recommended.
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Mick F
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Re: How many times can you rewaterproof Gore?

Post by Mick F »

I've had one Goretex cycling jacket maybe 30years. Washed many many times over the years along with general washing in the machine.
No special treatment ............. ever.
Mick F. Cornwall
alexnharvey
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Re: How many times can you rewaterproof Gore?

Post by alexnharvey »

Is the seam tape all still attached?
thirdcrank
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Re: How many times can you rewaterproof Gore?

Post by thirdcrank »

I take it from the way you explain this that there has been a noticeable change in the way the garment behaves. This may seem b..... obvious to you but is it possible that you have used it differently, eg riding more actively for longer.

With diffidence and advance apologies if you knew already, a lot of the apparent failure through apparent loss of impermeability is actually condensation. That can be hard to believe because the pattern of wet on the inside matches the wet on the surface. Cycling togs are notorious for this because of the demands placed on them by cycling. If it leaks, it will be local, caused either by tape failure or damage to the membrane. The tiniest of holes will allow water to pour in.

For many years, the outer surface of garments has been treated with a waxy-type substance (DWR?) to prevent it "wetting out" or getting soaked which prevents the membrane from allowing out vapour ie increases condensation. It works by making the water form into droplets and run off, rather that soaking the outer fabric. You can see if that's happening or not.The makers' recommended way of reactivating the DWR is to iron the garment on a low setting. I've never had to do it.

I wonder if you have clogged the membrane with the potion. I've only ever used mild detergent. If it is clogged, it may wash out.

You can get a Goretex garment professionally checked to check for leakage against condensation. My amateur(ish) method is to line a colander with it and fill it with water.
mnichols
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Re: How many times can you rewaterproof Gore?

Post by mnichols »

Mick F wrote:I've had one Goretex cycling jacket maybe 30years. Washed many many times over the years along with general washing in the machine.
No special treatment ............. ever.


But is it still waterproof? Mine will still cope with showers but had 10 hours of rain on Saturday
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Cugel
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Re: How many times can you rewaterproof Gore?

Post by Cugel »

If you have to get a new one, try the Gore shakedry ones. I've recently acquired one to replace an ancient super-thin pertex windproof that I usually stuff in a back pocket. That is 20 years old and never was waterproof; now it's s bit torn and the zip's gone too so ....

"I'll try a-one o' them shakedry Gortex, despite the cost". (Hunts for the sale). It weighs near nothing, goes easily in the back pocket and is astonishingly water and windproof. Best of all, it breaths very well indeed - the first waterproof jacket I've ever had that can expire as much as I can sweat. And I am a wet person when working hard.

It's very gossamer-like. Will it last for 20 years? I hope I can find out. :-)

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mnichols
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Re: How many times can you rewaterproof Gore?

Post by mnichols »

[quote="thirdcrank"]I take it from the way you explain this that there has been a noticeable change in the way the garment behaves. This may seem b..... obvious to you but is it possible that you have used it differently, eg riding more actively for longer.[\quote]

I'll only ride all day in the rain if I'm touring. The worse I had was 14 days of heavy rain. I'll get caught in a shower same as everyone else, but if the forecast is rain all day and it's training then I'll wait for a better day, go to the gym or use an indoor bike.

Condensation is a problem when I'm pushing hard, but I was riding at low intensity and it wetted out within the hour.

Had a couple of days of rain in the Himalayas last September and I don't remember having a problem

It was constant rain that was the problem. The showers on Sunday, even heavy ones were fine as it dries quickly as soon as the rain stops
Last edited by mnichols on 17 Jun 2019, 8:54am, edited 1 time in total.
mnichols
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Re: How many times can you rewaterproof Gore?

Post by mnichols »

Cugel wrote:If you have to get a new one, try the Gore shakedry ones. I've recently acquired one to replace an ancient super-thin pertex windproof that I usually stuff in a back pocket. That is 20 years old and never was waterproof; now it's s bit torn and the zip's gone too so ....

"I'll try a-one o' them shakedry Gortex, despite the cost". (Hunts for the sale). It weighs near nothing, goes easily in the back pocket and is astonishingly water and windproof. Best of all, it breaths very well indeed - the first waterproof jacket I've ever had that can expire as much as I can sweat. And I am a wet person when working hard.

It's very gossamer-like. Will it last for 20 years? I hope I can find out. :-)

Cugel


I might just be looking for an excuse to buy one

Oh well I suppose I'll have to
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Mick F
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Re: How many times can you rewaterproof Gore?

Post by Mick F »

mnichols wrote:
Mick F wrote:I've had one Goretex cycling jacket maybe 30years. Washed many many times over the years along with general washing in the machine.
No special treatment ............. ever.


But is it still waterproof? Mine will still cope with showers but had 10 hours of rain on Saturday
Yes, it is. It's faded on the back from the sunshine/daylight, but still in superb condition.

The problem with waterproof clothing, is just that - it's waterproof.
This means that moisture can't get in or out.
Goretex is indeed breathable, but only up to a point.

Hard activity like cycling, all it will do is keep the rain out, but it won't let the sweat out fast enough. I've come home on many an occasion cold and wet, and one or twice over-cold.

Up on Dartmoor some years ago, it started to rain, and seemed like it was going to not stop. I had put my Goretex on as I saw the rain approaching, and carried on, and then down off the moor into Tavistock. It was August, and by the time I made it to the town, I was freezing cold. The weather was mild and warm, and I remained dry from the rain, but inside my jacket was wet through with sweat and it conducted my temperature away.
Mick F. Cornwall
thirdcrank
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Re: How many times can you rewaterproof Gore?

Post by thirdcrank »

Unless there's an obvious local leak, then I'd urge something like my colander test. I'm a self-confessed Goretex fetishist and even as an utter cynic, I'm a sucker for being taken in by manufacturers' marketing.

I bought my first Goretex cycling jacket in the eary 1980s. Pre-DWR and with rubbish seam taping. I was convinced it was as leaky as a string vest but I devised the colander test and satisfied myself that I was getting wet from condensation - and leaking seams. As I type, I'm bringing back some memories. BITD when Goretex was relatively new and the CTC - formerly a national cycling club - employed a well-qualified technical officer to research and advise (vehicular?) cyclists about technical things, Chris Juden, his real name, not changed to protect his identity for legal reasons reviewed such a garment in the CTC mag. (That was an historic magazine, whose name changed from time to time with fashion, but was full of interesting stuff for CTC rather than ctc riders.) CJ - not Reginald Iolanthe Perrin's nemesis - included a throwaway remark about the jacket leaking. Getting a bit miffed about the arm-and-a-leg price of goretex togs I wrote him a letter and IIRC he wangled some sort of visit to Goretex, which is how my eyes were opened to condensation in cycling jackets. (E&OE)

gaz - who FWIW inherited my first disappointing jacket may well be along with a link to what CJ published. He's good at that sort of thing.
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Re: How many times can you rewaterproof Gore?

Post by PH »

On a more general point about Gortex, it's has become a bit of a generic term, hardly surprising as the main patent ran out in the 90's and referring to it a multi layered membrane and shell fabric is a bit much!
My current breathable jacket is Event fabric, which in tests is more breathable than Gortex, in practice I don't notice much difference between it and the Gortex one it replaced.
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Re: How many times can you rewaterproof Gore?

Post by Barks »

Using a cool iron or putting the garment in the tumble dryer sill help restore the DWR coating effectiveness (see garment label) and when this no longer has the desired effect you need to reapply the DWR coating using products like NikWax thx direct, this is NOT a waterproofing compound just water repellent. Without an efficient water repellent surface the garment will wet out and your body condensation WILL soak the inside. Goretex fabric is waterproof to liquid water but permeable to water in its free gas state, but the permeability is only really efficient when the outside is in a dry state. It also works better in cold conditions because cold air has less vapour holding capacity and the difference in your body temperature to the outside helps to create a pressure difference to help Force water vapour out through the membrane.

Be realistic though, in a real downpour over an extended period the relative humidity of the surrounding air will be 100% and the DWR coating will not fully cope such that condensation will build up inside and you will be wet. Goretex is not the wonder fabric that some of the marketing would have you believe. It is is very good though compared to traditional impermeable fabrics and by using pit vents under the arms, leaving cuffs open, keeping the hood down or even the front zip down if you can (more difficult on a bike I know) will improve ventilation beyond what the fabric can deal with alone and help in regulating your body temperature to minimise sweating in the first case.

Also As mentioned above any small hole or tape seam damage will allow physical leaks in any case so check carefully and repair as necessary.
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