Can I electrify my bike ?????

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
skyhawk
Posts: 296
Joined: 30 May 2019, 3:00pm

Can I electrify my bike ?????

Postby skyhawk » 19 Jun 2019, 10:29am

Technology moves on almost daily and changes weekly...

Is it now possible to add a drive to my bike not for pedal assist - but where you can accelerate using a control on the bars.

many thanks in advance

P1050175.jpg
Both I and my son are Autistic. We have aspergers and ADHD, not stupid :). If I sound "blunt" in my posts, please be understanding : I am not perfect. Thank you. Visit https://www.asdinfowales.co.uk/ to learn more

hemo
Posts: 848
Joined: 16 Nov 2017, 5:40pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: Can I electrify my bike ?????

Postby hemo » 19 Jun 2019, 10:52am

Yes and no.

For a twist throttle or thumb throttle only it is not an EAPC/pedelec but under law becomes a light moped class.
Legally will need type aprroval/MSVA testing, number plate, insurnace & wear a crash helmet, etc etc.
Getting one approved means a lot of work with tyres,brakes, lights & mirrors being amongst the items to be checked.

Any pedal bike conversion is best kept simple. For EAPC/Pedelec capability use a 250w 36 or 48v kit with PAS either cadence or torque sensor type. A throttle can be used but only if it is configured not to be a stand alone use item, so the need to pedal first before throttle becomes active. UK regs differ from mainland EU where they are illegal.
Anything else is deemed a moped or is classed as a Le1a light moped.


Prior to 01 Jan 2016 bikes fitted with stand alone throttle with PAS are legal, post 01 Jan 2016 bikes fitted with stand alone and PAS are classed as Le1a light mopeds.
Last edited by hemo on 19 Jun 2019, 7:11pm, edited 1 time in total.

kwackers
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Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Can I electrify my bike ?????

Postby kwackers » 19 Jun 2019, 11:02am

hemo wrote:For a twist throttle or thumb throttle only it is not an EAPC/pedelec but under law becomes a light moped class Le1a.

I thought this was date related, before some time (2016?) these were legal.

If so then does the date relate to the bike or the conversion?

If the conversion then like me your conversion could quite easily have happened prior to this - my memory is fairly fuzzy on stuff like this...
If the bike, then just make sure your bike was bought before.

Ivor Tingting
Posts: 856
Joined: 10 Mar 2009, 9:57pm

Re: Can I electrify my bike ?????

Postby Ivor Tingting » 19 Jun 2019, 11:09am

What's wrong with pedalling using all your own effort?
"Zat is ze reel prowoking qwestion Mr Paxman." - Peer Steinbruck, German Finance Minister 31/03/2009.

skyhawk
Posts: 296
Joined: 30 May 2019, 3:00pm

Re: Can I electrify my bike ?????

Postby skyhawk » 19 Jun 2019, 12:18pm

"hemo"
Thanks for that, I am learning
Both I and my son are Autistic. We have aspergers and ADHD, not stupid :). If I sound "blunt" in my posts, please be understanding : I am not perfect. Thank you. Visit https://www.asdinfowales.co.uk/ to learn more

skyhawk
Posts: 296
Joined: 30 May 2019, 3:00pm

Re: Can I electrify my bike ?????

Postby skyhawk » 19 Jun 2019, 12:18pm

Ivor Tingting wrote:What's wrong with pedalling using all your own effort?



Please note my signature

Thanks for taking the time to reply

Thanks
Both I and my son are Autistic. We have aspergers and ADHD, not stupid :). If I sound "blunt" in my posts, please be understanding : I am not perfect. Thank you. Visit https://www.asdinfowales.co.uk/ to learn more

hemo
Posts: 848
Joined: 16 Nov 2017, 5:40pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: Can I electrify my bike ?????

Postby hemo » 19 Jun 2019, 1:21pm

kwackers wrote:
hemo wrote:For a twist throttle or thumb throttle only it is not an EAPC/pedelec but under law becomes a light moped class Le1a.

I thought this was date related, before some time (2016?) these were legal.

If so then does the date relate to the bike or the conversion?

If the conversion then like me your conversion could quite easily have happened prior to this - my memory is fairly fuzzy on stuff like this...
If the bike, then just make sure your bike was bought before.



The dates are at the end of my post replying to Skyhawk.
The conversion has to be on a pre 2016 bike or the kit needs to be pre 2016 to be legal with a throttle. In both cases proof of purchase is likely the defacto requirement to be able to use.

hemo
Posts: 848
Joined: 16 Nov 2017, 5:40pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: Can I electrify my bike ?????

Postby hemo » 19 Jun 2019, 1:40pm

Skyhawk nearly all kits use PAS as this is the EU/UK legal status for a pedelec even for those with any form of disability, the PAS in most cases is just a simple hall sensor wired to the controller and activated by magnet disc as is passes the sensor. The law does not make allowances for disability with bicycles/pedelecs though a understanding plod may be more compassionate to your circumstances if stopped.

On my bikes all with PAS I have set the throttles to comply and they are only operational once I start pedalling.
In places some of the plod are becoming wiser to pedelec law/use and may stop and question if they see you are not pedalling.
On Monday I had a chain issue which I forgot to remedy and the chain snapped on the way to work so I simply put the chain in my bag and carried on to work. The motor will still drive without a chain by ghost pedalling, the sensor still picks up the magnet signal located by the chainring/BB though at a slower speed. I was able to engage the throttle to zip me along in this case, other wise throttle is rarely used and is save for emergency use.

I always advocate to fit a PAS kit and use the trottle wisely. PAS only requires a 1/4 to 1/2 rotation for a throttle to become active so not a lot of cycling is actually needed. The UK reg/law is a bit unusual a seller is not allowed to sell a bike with fitted throttle but a user/buyer can fit one afterwards if it complies with pedal first usage.
Last edited by hemo on 19 Jun 2019, 2:03pm, edited 1 time in total.

hemo
Posts: 848
Joined: 16 Nov 2017, 5:40pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: Can I electrify my bike ?????

Postby hemo » 19 Jun 2019, 1:54pm

There have been a few cases where a wheel chair bound user has converted their wheelchair in to a trike type affair with the addition of a front wheel add on conversion kit which are throttle only, in these cases the user has no lower limbs or suffers paralysis so resort to the set up to be able to use there new found freedom. In law not legal but find a court who would prosecute them, out come would be not in the publics best interest.

GranvilleThomas
Posts: 120
Joined: 1 Apr 2015, 9:58am
Location: Caerphilly

Re: Can I electrify my bike ?????

Postby GranvilleThomas » 19 Jun 2019, 5:16pm

I must admit I have been looking into this my self because my health has been deteriorating in recent years and was looking into buying some kind of 'electrified wheel' with a throttle for days when I don't feel well enough to pedal, fitted to my spare bike, but I must admit this business with the law has put me off a bit.

What I fail to understand is why you are allowed to use a mobilty scooter with a throttle if you have a disability but not a bicycle? It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

skyhawk
Posts: 296
Joined: 30 May 2019, 3:00pm

Re: Can I electrify my bike ?????

Postby skyhawk » 19 Jun 2019, 5:52pm

GranvilleThomas wrote:I must admit I have been looking into this my self because my health has been deteriorating in recent years and was looking into buying some kind of 'electrified wheel' with a throttle for days when I don't feel well enough to pedal, fitted to my spare bike, but I must admit this business with the law has put me off a bit.

What I fail to understand is why you are allowed to use a mobilty scooter with a throttle if you have a disability but not a bicycle? It makes no sense to me whatsoever.


good point especially as a mobility scooter is large and heavy
Both I and my son are Autistic. We have aspergers and ADHD, not stupid :). If I sound "blunt" in my posts, please be understanding : I am not perfect. Thank you. Visit https://www.asdinfowales.co.uk/ to learn more

hemo
Posts: 848
Joined: 16 Nov 2017, 5:40pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: Can I electrify my bike ?????

Postby hemo » 19 Jun 2019, 6:51pm

Mobility scooters are meant to have a max 6kmh/4mph speed limit for path usage where as pedelecs are allowed 15.5pmh/25kmh.

The rules/law is to differentiate between pedal assist cycles and light mopeds, one has to have pedals the other is purely twist throttle powered.

hemo
Posts: 848
Joined: 16 Nov 2017, 5:40pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: Can I electrify my bike ?????

Postby hemo » 19 Jun 2019, 7:00pm

GranvilleThomas wrote:I must admit I have been looking into this my self because my health has been deteriorating in recent years and was looking into buying some kind of 'electrified wheel' with a throttle for days when I don't feel well enough to pedal, fitted to my spare bike, but I must admit this business with the law has put me off a bit.

What I fail to understand is why you are allowed to use a mobilty scooter with a throttle if you have a disability but not a bicycle? It makes no sense to me whatsoever.


With pedal assist you only need to ghost pedal, the pedal sensor sends a signal to the controller which in turn activates the motor.
So if you have little energy it is no problem to whoosh along up to 15.5mph with very little input albeit at a slightly slower accelerating speed. To be legal simply add a twist throttle that is only activated once you have turned the crank a little.

What is not allowed is pedal cycle with a throttle that works from a standing start, if it does then in law it is a light moped.
These can be used legally if type approved from a test centre and then insured etc,etc by the time you do that it will be easier to get a proper moped.

GranvilleThomas
Posts: 120
Joined: 1 Apr 2015, 9:58am
Location: Caerphilly

Re: Can I electrify my bike ?????

Postby GranvilleThomas » 19 Jun 2019, 7:27pm

hemo wrote:Mobility scooters are meant to have a max 6kmh/4mph speed limit for path usage where as pedelecs are allowed 15.5pmh/25kmh.

The rules/law is to differentiate between pedal assist cycles and light mopeds, one has to have pedals the other is purely twist throttle powered.


Yes, thanks for the information I am already aware of all this and Class 3 mobility scooters are those with an upper speed limit of 8 mph (12 km/h) and are equipped to be used on the road as well as the pavement.

The point I was trying to make is that you don't have to pedal them, but they have a throttle fitted.

Maybe some kind of a campaign needs to be started with local MP's, to change the law, to allow people with a disability to be allowed to use an electric cycle without having to pedal it?

skyhawk
Posts: 296
Joined: 30 May 2019, 3:00pm

Re: Can I electrify my bike ?????

Postby skyhawk » 19 Jun 2019, 8:52pm

GranvilleThomas wrote:
hemo wrote:Mobility scooters are meant to have a max 6kmh/4mph speed limit for path usage where as pedelecs are allowed 15.5pmh/25kmh.

The rules/law is to differentiate between pedal assist cycles and light mopeds, one has to have pedals the other is purely twist throttle powered.


Yes, thanks for the information I am already aware of all this and Class 3 mobility scooters are those with an upper speed limit of 8 mph (12 km/h) and are equipped to be used on the road as well as the pavement.

The point I was trying to make is that you don't have to pedal them, but they have a throttle fitted.

Maybe some kind of a campaign needs to be started with local MP's, to change the law, to allow people with a disability to be allowed to use an electric cycle without having to pedal it?



Ha......... show me a mobility thing that does just 4mph, they zoom past me on the pavement
Both I and my son are Autistic. We have aspergers and ADHD, not stupid :). If I sound "blunt" in my posts, please be understanding : I am not perfect. Thank you. Visit https://www.asdinfowales.co.uk/ to learn more