10-50 cassette

[nez]

The comments about setting up a front derailleur being idiot proof made me raise my eyebrows. Having acquired a derailleur bike again after doing most of my riding in the last 10 years on a rohloff I am remembering what a PITA they can be. The compact double was not suitable to my use around here and I shifted to a spa subcompact which is much better. Now I’m faffing with cable tensions to enable me to use all the gears. I solved the issue of not being able to use the lowest three rings on the cassette only to find I’d compromised shifting onto the bigger rings. They all work on the stand but as soon as you put load on they make annoying noises. I’m used to silent riding and hate rattles of any description! I’m sure I will get it right eventually but it certainly isn’t idiot proof.

But when you get the gears running quietly it’s *so* satisfying

[geocycle]

The comments about setting up a front derailleur being idiot proof made me raise my eyebrows. Having acquired a derailleur bike again after doing most of my riding in the last 10 years on a rohloff I am remembering what a PITA they can be. The compact double was not suitable to my use around here and I shifted to a spa subcompact which is much better. Now I’m faffing with cable tensions to enable me to use all the gears. I solved the issue of not being able to use the lowest three rings on the cassette only to find I’d compromised shifting onto the bigger rings. They all work on the stand but as soon as you put load on they make annoying noises. I’m used to silent riding and hate rattles of any description! I’m sure I will get it right eventually but it certainly isn’t idiot proof.

But when you get the gears running quietly it’s *so* satisfying

I hope so!

[reohn2]

The comments about setting up a front derailleur being idiot proof made me raise my eyebrows. Having acquired a derailleur bike again after doing most of my riding in the last 10 years on a rohloff I am remembering what a PITA they can be. The compact double was not suitable to my use around here and I shifted to a spa subcompact which is much better. Now I’m faffing with cable tensions to enable me to use all the gears. I solved the issue of not being able to use the lowest three rings on the cassette only to find I’d compromised shifting onto the bigger rings. They all work on the stand but as soon as you put load on they make annoying noises. I’m used to silent riding and hate rattles of any description! I’m sure I will get it right eventually but it certainly isn’t idiot proof.

What shifters,front mech and importantly with the chainset you have fitted,what length BB axle?

[Mike_Ayling]

The comments about setting up a front derailleur being idiot proof made me raise my eyebrows. Having acquired a derailleur bike again after doing most of my riding in the last 10 years on a rohloff I am remembering what a PITA they can be. The compact double was not suitable to my use around here and I shifted to a spa subcompact which is much better. Now I’m faffing with cable tensions to enable me to use all the gears. I solved the issue of not being able to use the lowest three rings on the cassette only to find I’d compromised shifting onto the bigger rings. They all work on the stand but as soon as you put load on they make annoying noises. I’m used to silent riding and hate rattles of any description! I’m sure I will get it right eventually but it certainly isn’t idiot proof.

But when you get the gears running quietly it’s *so* satisfying

Why on earth did you give up the Rohloff?

Mike

[geocycle]

The comments about setting up a front derailleur being idiot proof made me raise my eyebrows. Having acquired a derailleur bike again after doing most of my riding in the last 10 years on a rohloff I am remembering what a PITA they can be. The compact double was not suitable to my use around here and I shifted to a spa subcompact which is much better. Now I’m faffing with cable tensions to enable me to use all the gears. I solved the issue of not being able to use the lowest three rings on the cassette only to find I’d compromised shifting onto the bigger rings. They all work on the stand but as soon as you put load on they make annoying noises. I’m used to silent riding and hate rattles of any description! I’m sure I will get it right eventually but it certainly isn’t idiot proof.

But when you get the gears running quietly it’s *so* satisfying

Why on earth did you give up the Rohloff?

Mike

I haven't and I'd not be without it. My Thorn raven sport tour is my commuter and loaded tourer that I ride most days. I just fancied something different so got a Spa Ti Audax for day rides. I do enjoy it and am getting used to using derailleurs and drop bars again. However, if anything happened to the Thorn I'd replace it with another rohloff bike straight away.

[geocycle]

The comments about setting up a front derailleur being idiot proof made me raise my eyebrows. Having acquired a derailleur bike again after doing most of my riding in the last 10 years on a rohloff I am remembering what a PITA they can be. The compact double was not suitable to my use around here and I shifted to a spa subcompact which is much better. Now I’m faffing with cable tensions to enable me to use all the gears. I solved the issue of not being able to use the lowest three rings on the cassette only to find I’d compromised shifting onto the bigger rings. They all work on the stand but as soon as you put load on they make annoying noises. I’m used to silent riding and hate rattles of any description! I’m sure I will get it right eventually but it certainly isn’t idiot proof.

What shifters,front mech and importantly with the chainset you have fitted,what length BB axle?

It came with Shimano 105 groupset which to be fair worked pretty well but the gearing was not right for me (I always wanted to be in between the 50 and 34 rings and you can never have a low enough gear in the Lakes). The cassette is 11-32. I have changed to the Spa sub compact (a modified triple with 44 and 28) which works well for me in terms of ratios and put on a 116mm square taper BB (recommended by Spa). I've more or less got the derailleurs sorted again but I'd forgotten just how sensitive they are to cable tension. I'll get there!

[Brucey]

The comments about setting up a front derailleur being idiot proof made me raise my eyebrows. Having acquired a derailleur bike again after doing most of my riding in the last 10 years on a rohloff I am remembering what a PITA they can be. The compact double was not suitable to my use around here and I shifted to a spa subcompact which is much better. Now I’m faffing with cable tensions to enable me to use all the gears. I solved the issue of not being able to use the lowest three rings on the cassette only to find I’d compromised shifting onto the bigger rings. They all work on the stand but as soon as you put load on they make annoying noises. I’m used to silent riding and hate rattles of any description! I’m sure I will get it right eventually but it certainly isn’t idiot proof.

FWIW a lot of the issue folk have with derailleurs arise because of the tyranny of STIs. Indexed front shifting is basically an incredibly stupid idea. If you are strong and use 'road' size chainsets making a setup 100% rub-proof is virtually impossible. Some STIs have 'trim clicks' and this helps enormously, often making the difference between a setup that is tolerable and one that isn't. The other thing that usually works reasonably well is to use an MTB-based transmission, bolted to a stiff frame; this can usually be made virtually rub-free.

I've owned and used many bike with 'road' transmissions and drop-bar STIs and I have to report that not a single one of them has been 'perfect'. They can all be made to work OK on the workstand and they have all rubbed when you are really laying it down (*). Best choice is a friction lever which allows the trim to be perfect. Second (a distant second) best would be an STI with good trim clicks. Can take a long time to set up though.

(*) This is not a new problem for me; BITD (before any kind of indexing) I often used to make FDs rub both sides when giving it full gas. That was with the best quality equipment then available. I had to pick and choose equipment to avoid the worst of it.

cheers

[reohn2]

The comments about setting up a front derailleur being idiot proof made me raise my eyebrows. Having acquired a derailleur bike again after doing most of my riding in the last 10 years on a rohloff I am remembering what a PITA they can be. The compact double was not suitable to my use around here and I shifted to a spa subcompact which is much better. Now I’m faffing with cable tensions to enable me to use all the gears. I solved the issue of not being able to use the lowest three rings on the cassette only to find I’d compromised shifting onto the bigger rings. They all work on the stand but as soon as you put load on they make annoying noises. I’m used to silent riding and hate rattles of any description! I’m sure I will get it right eventually but it certainly isn’t idiot proof.

What shifters,front mech and importantly with the chainset you have fitted,what length BB axle?

It came with Shimano 105 groupset which to be fair worked pretty well but the gearing was not right for me (I always wanted to be in between the 50 and 34 rings and you can never have a low enough gear in the Lakes). The cassette is 11-32. I have changed to the Spa sub compact (a modified triple with 44 and 28) which works well for me in terms of ratios and put on a 116mm square taper BB (recommended by Spa). I've more or less got the derailleurs sorted again but I'd forgotten just how sensitive they are to cable tension. I'll get there!

I'd suggest you need a triple front road mech set as if the your two chainrings are the the inner and middle of a triple with the high limit screw set appropriately,to get the front change spot on.With that adjusted correctly the only rubbing of the cage should be inner ring and smallest sprocket.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

And never can be with such a huge range.

Oh yes you can!

Try a triple 10sp of a normal sort, and couple it onto a SA3sp.
I have 90 ratios to chose from all very close and accessible from 134" down to 16"
DT shifters for the derailleurs and a bar-end for the SA.
Any gear at the flick of a lever.

Yes, I know there are duplications and near-duplications, but the system is excellent and versatile.
If and when my Campag system packs up on Mercian, I'll be doing the same.

As I posted before "only for Mick and a few others".
I've never ever,even when I was a very strong young man,needed a gear bigger than 100inch.
But I have needed gears as low as 20inch
A triple chainset with a 9sp custom cassette offers me the range a closeness of ratios I will ever need.

I am in no way admitting to being as strong as strong man R2
But if I can do a Dartmoor sportive with a 15 kg tourer carrying over 4 litres of water on top in a gold time then yes who needs more than 100 "
My gears were, and I used 2nd gear one small hill and ist not at all
I had the 22T granny but I never use it with out two panniers
http://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=DERS ... 2.6&UN=MPH

[Mick F]

The online gear calculators don't work for a triple 10sp with a SA3p.
Here's my ninety.

[colin54]

The online gear calculators don't work for a triple 10sp with a SA3p.
Here's my ninety.

What's your technique to avoid getting confused with all that choice Mick ?

[RickH]

... there is no escaping the fact that if you have a dinner plate sized sprocket and a mech to match, the whole shooting match is practically dragging along the floor at times.

As I happened to be in the shed for other purposes I thought I would do some (approximate) measurements on the 2 less used bikes (& the Circe Helios just because it is there too)

Mrs H's bike (700C, 40mm tyres, 1x9) has an Altus rear mech, 10cm cage length (jockey wheel centres), minimum ground clearance ~15cm

My old road bike (700C, 28mm tyres, 3x10) has a Campagnolo Comp Triple rear mech, 9cm cage length, minimum ground clearance ~15cm.

Circe Helios (20"/406 ETRTO, 47mm tyres, 2x Alfine , tensioner cage length ~5cm, minimum ground clearance ~10cm.

Kona Sutra (700C, 40mm tyres, 1x11) has a SRAM Rival1 (running a 10-42 cassette), cage length ~7.5cm, minimum ground clearance ~17cm.

So the bike with the most dinner plate like sprocket has the shortest cage mech & the most ground clearance.

Running something like the Altus mech on a 26"wheel bike, especially with narrower tyres, could lose you 2-3cm more clearance but still not particularly "dragging along the floor". Are thare any Shimano derailleurs that are longer?

[Brucey]

if you use wheel size as a proxy for SA gear ratio you can compare the low and middle ranges of Micks gearing

http://ritzelrechner.de/?GR=DERS&KB=34,48,61&RZ=11,12,13,14,15,17,19,21,24,28&UF=1095&TF=90&SL=2.6&UN=MPH&DV=gearInches&GR2=DERS&KB2=34,48,61&RZ2=11,12,13,14,15,17,19,21,24,28&UF2=1460

and the middle and high ranges;

http://ritzelrechner.de/?GR=DERS&KB=34,48,61&RZ=11,12,13,14,15,17,19,21,24,28&UF=1947&TF=90&SL=2.6&UN=MPH&DV=gearInches&GR2=DERS&KB2=34,48,61&RZ2=11,12,13,14,15,17,19,21,24,28&UF2=1460

the right one's in there somewhere!

cheers

[Brucey]

So the bike with the most dinner plate like sprocket has the shortest cage mech & the most ground clearance...

yebbut if the gearing had the full range under discussion (10-50) it would have less (the least?) clearance...?

I think there are shimano mechs with slightly longer cages. I guess it is swings and roundabouts with the 1x; the total capacity of the RD isn't necessarily big enough to run even a double chainset with that cassette, so potentially the tension pulley is further forwards and upwards from its lowest point than it might be when using a double or triple.

cheers

[Bmblbzzz]

I have seen rear mechs catching on mown grass, but they've been on 'bent trikes with small wheels (406 from memory).