Road tyre wear Vittoria Randonneur Pro 2 700C x 32

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Jamesh
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Re: Road tyre wear Vittoria Randonneur Pro 2 700C x 32

Postby Jamesh » 15 Jul 2019, 12:59pm

Just done lejog and wear was very flat!

Like I hadn't cornered in 950 miles!!

Cheers James

elPedro666
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Re: Road tyre wear Vittoria Randonneur Pro 2 700C x 32

Postby elPedro666 » 15 Jul 2019, 1:07pm

mig wrote:do you ever corner? :wink:


deliquium wrote:Mind you my Nelson Longflap, copious toolkit and 6 pack of Stella probably weigh more than I do :wink:



I'd imagine that the ride home would be anything but a straight line after that!





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PH
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Re: Road tyre wear Vittoria Randonneur Pro 2 700C x 32

Postby PH » 15 Jul 2019, 1:22pm

deliquium wrote:Do you know what the 32mm Supremes actually measure width wise on a 17mm internal rim?

I've had the verniers out just for you :wink:
Original 32mm Supreme on a Exal LX17 rim 29 and a bit (I only have cheap plastic verniers)
Current version in 35mm on the same rim 32mm
I don't have the current version in 32mm,

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Re: Road tyre wear Vittoria Randonneur Pro 2 700C x 32

Postby PH » 15 Jul 2019, 1:36pm

Sweep wrote:
PH wrote:. I also swap tyres front/rear (New one on front, front transferred to rear)

Educate me please. Is this because you consider that the new tyre will give more grip and this is most relevant on the front?


reohn2 has given an answer I'd agree with. It's the only way I've swapped tyres, probably after reading that Sheldon considered swapping rear to front a serious mistake. I am prepared to wear them thinner on the rear than I'm comfortable doing on the front. Does it make any difference? I don't know, maybe it's a confidence thing of wanting to know a good tyre is where I need it most and as I get to wear every tyre out it has no cost other than a little time. They'll also sometimes change bikes, for example I wouldn't set out on tour with a well worn rear tyre though I may consider it to have a few hundred town miles left, but all my bikes get new tyres on the front.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-rotation.html

PH
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Re: Road tyre wear Vittoria Randonneur Pro 2 700C x 32

Postby PH » 15 Jul 2019, 1:41pm

Samuel D wrote:
PH wrote:[…] and I'm not sure how many miles it's OK to do when the red starts showing.

None if you’re concerned with grip. The tread compound has significant hysteresis to generate wet grip, whereas the layer underneath is typically designed to have as low hysteresis as possible (like a bouncy ball) to reduce rolling resistance. Consequently, using that layer as an improvised tread will produce miserable traction on a wet surface – not ideal in an emergency stop..

Thanks, that's pretty much confirmed what I thought and I've changed them when the red has started showing. I've just sometimes wondered if I'd get a bit more out of them.

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deliquium
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Re: Road tyre wear Vittoria Randonneur Pro 2 700C x 32

Postby deliquium » 15 Jul 2019, 4:03pm

mig wrote:my tyres don't wear like that. to me that looks like a newish tyre with an extremely worn centre. the shoulders hardly seem touched. mine wear down all over.

do you ever corner? :wink:


You're dead right, re the evidence - I often wondered about that myself. Plus, as I mentioned, my pressures are low compared to others - they're based on some formula re front and rear weight and tyre drop American thingie - which works a treat for me and all my bikes. The tyres in question (which measure 27.78mm (but marked 32mm) are run 50 rear 40 front - like riding a magic carpet. But comfort isn't all tyres is it? It's frame, forks and steerer too - and possibly riding 'style' (not sure about that last 'point' though?)

There's barely a straight road here in Snowdonia (apart from the A470 Trawsfynydd to Dolgellau or the A5 which are both the most unpleasant things on a bicycle and which I never ride). We do have lots of downhills with frequent sharp bends so lots of fast left and right banking. Going slow up hills the bike is upright, apart from the occasional honk and arm wearing heaving left and right to get up the steep bits in the wrong (for one's age) gear!

I wonder what would explain the difference is between your tyre wear and mine?
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deliquium
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Re: Road tyre wear Vittoria Randonneur Pro 2 700C x 32

Postby deliquium » 15 Jul 2019, 4:11pm

PH wrote:
deliquium wrote:Do you know what the 32mm Supremes actually measure width wise on a 17mm internal rim?

I've had the verniers out just for you :wink:
Original 32mm Supreme on a Exal LX17 rim 29 and a bit (I only have cheap plastic verniers)
Current version in 35mm on the same rim 32mm
I don't have the current version in 32mm,


Thanks PH - that looks promising if I ever try the Supremes - REAL 32mm tyres would mean deflating them for removal on the Longstaff (which was an off the peg 'touring frame' in 1991 - but George did favour narrower canti bosses to suit the late 80s' Wide arm Dia Compe canti brakes (widened to ~80mm centres, for V brakes when I had the frame resprayed for its 25th anniversary)
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mig
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Re: Road tyre wear Vittoria Randonneur Pro 2 700C x 32

Postby mig » 15 Jul 2019, 4:29pm

deliquium wrote:
mig wrote:my tyres don't wear like that. to me that looks like a newish tyre with an extremely worn centre. the shoulders hardly seem touched. mine wear down all over.

do you ever corner? :wink:


You're dead right, re the evidence - I often wondered about that myself. Plus, as I mentioned, my pressures are low compared to others - they're based on some formula re front and rear weight and tyre drop American thingie - which works a treat for me and all my bikes. The tyres in question (which measure 27.78mm (but marked 32mm) are run 50 rear 40 front - like riding a magic carpet. But comfort isn't all tyres is it? It's frame, forks and steerer too - and possibly riding 'style' (not sure about that last 'point' though?)

There's barely a straight road here in Snowdonia (apart from the A470 Trawsfynydd to Dolgellau or the A5 which are both the most unpleasant things on a bicycle and which I never ride). We do have lots of downhills with frequent sharp bends so lots of fast left and right banking. Going slow up hills the bike is upright, apart from the occasional honk and arm wearing heaving left and right to get up the steep bits in the wrong (for one's age) gear!

I wonder what would explain the difference is between your tyre wear and mine?


you ride on billiard table road surfaces?

i'm a fatty? :D

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Sweep
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Re: Road tyre wear Vittoria Randonneur Pro 2 700C x 32

Postby Sweep » 15 Jul 2019, 7:57pm

PH wrote:
Sweep wrote:
PH wrote:. I also swap tyres front/rear (New one on front, front transferred to rear)

Educate me please. Is this because you consider that the new tyre will give more grip and this is most relevant on the front?


reohn2 has given an answer I'd agree with. It's the only way I've swapped tyres, probably after reading that Sheldon considered swapping rear to front a serious mistake. I am prepared to wear them thinner on the rear than I'm comfortable doing on the front. Does it make any difference? I don't know, maybe it's a confidence thing of wanting to know a good tyre is where I need it most and as I get to wear every tyre out it has no cost other than a little time. They'll also sometimes change bikes, for example I wouldn't set out on tour with a well worn rear tyre though I may consider it to have a few hundred town miles left, but all my bikes get new tyres on the front.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-rotation.html

Thanks ph, reohn and sheldon. Will very seriously consider.
Sweep

Brucey
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Re: Road tyre wear Vittoria Randonneur Pro 2 700C x 32

Postby Brucey » 15 Jul 2019, 8:08pm

I disagree with the 'fit new tyres at the front' approach; this gives exactly the wrong tyre characteristics.

Occasionally a tyre manufacturer will produce a set which are front and rear specific, and if you fit these tyres the wrong way round you will usually replicate the 'new front' style quite nicely.... :roll:

cheers
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Sweep
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Re: Road tyre wear Vittoria Randonneur Pro 2 700C x 32

Postby Sweep » 15 Jul 2019, 8:10pm

Brucey wrote:I disagree with the 'fit new tyres at the front' approach; this gives exactly the wrong tyre characteristics.

Occasionally a tyre manufacturer will produce a set which are front and rear specific, and if you fit these tyres the wrong way round you will usually replicate the 'new front' style quite nicely.... :roll:

cheers

Cripes brucey, now you are complicating things for me :)

What do you think of the serious sounding safety arguments?
Sweep

Brucey
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Re: Road tyre wear Vittoria Randonneur Pro 2 700C x 32

Postby Brucey » 15 Jul 2019, 8:35pm

I think those arguments are pretty spurious. IME when a tyre has done a stint on the back wheel it has proven itself a good tyre and will invariably not suffer any/further wear-related damage when fitted to the front, simply because it sees much lower loads (unless you are one of these crazy types that think that your entire touring load is best sat over your front wheel). You get a chance to inspect the tyre closely when rotating it to the front wheel, so you know if it is in good condition or not.

A significant number of new tyres are faulty; they fail quickly (and relatively harmlessly) when fitted to the rear wheel. If they are fitted to a front wheel they can cause a nasty accident. They have an easier time of it on the front wheel so the tyre can still be bad and fail when it is rotated to the rear; really by fitting it to the front you have proven nothing.

Front tyres need less tread than rears; my idea of steering hell is to fit a new treaded tyre to the front, and put up with all that squidging around as the tread block squirm hopelessly.

If you have a free choice of tyres using front and rear-specific fitments makes a lot of sense; using slightly worn tyres on the front is as close as you can come to this if you can't get front and rear- specific tyres.

Ask yourself what causes you to retire a tyre; is it (barring accidental damage) always

a) because the carcass fails when the tyre is old
b) the tyre tread wears out
c) the tyre suffers some kind of failure when it is still quite new because it was badly made.

If a) is the most common mode of failure then you are basically buying tyres that are crap by design and you should buy something else. b) should be the most common cause of failure . You can't stop c) from being a significant element because tyres are not made by robots; there is a always a chance of variability. I'd argue that if you choose your tyres well, c) is likely to account for more failures than a). If this is the case then the 'new front' scheme is less safe than the alternative, not more safe.

cheers
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reohn2
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Re: Road tyre wear Vittoria Randonneur Pro 2 700C x 32

Postby reohn2 » 15 Jul 2019, 8:47pm

Brucey wrote:I disagree with the 'fit new tyres at the front' approach; this gives exactly the wrong tyre characteristics.

Occasionally a tyre manufacturer will produce a set which are front and rear specific, and if you fit these tyres the wrong way round you will usually replicate the 'new front' style quite nicely.... :roll:

cheers

How many different tyre pairs are made front/rear specific?
I can only think of one,Continental and that 'set' are more a racing/training tyre,and I've never seen any touring tyres that are front/rear specific?
Last edited by reohn2 on 15 Jul 2019, 9:02pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TrevA
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Re: Road tyre wear Vittoria Randonneur Pro 2 700C x 32

Postby TrevA » 15 Jul 2019, 8:54pm

I think Mavic Yksions are front and rear specific - the Griplink (front) and the Powerlink (rear). They are a race tyre, though.

reohn2
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Re: Road tyre wear Vittoria Randonneur Pro 2 700C x 32

Postby reohn2 » 15 Jul 2019, 9:02pm

Brucey wrote:I think those arguments are pretty spurious. IME when a tyre has done a stint on the back wheel it has proven itself a good tyre and will invariably not suffer any/further wear-related damage when fitted to the front, simply because it sees much lower loads (unless you are one of these crazy types that think that your entire touring load is best sat over your front wheel). You get a chance to inspect the tyre closely when rotating it to the front wheel, so you know if it is in good condition or not.

A significant number of new tyres are faulty; they fail quickly (and relatively harmlessly) when fitted to the rear wheel. If they are fitted to a front wheel they can cause a nasty accident. They have an easier time of it on the front wheel so the tyre can still be bad and fail when it is rotated to the rear; really by fitting it to the front you have proven nothing.

Front tyres need less tread than rears; my idea of steering hell is to fit a new treaded tyre to the front, and put up with all that squidging around as the tread block squirm hopelessly.

If you have a free choice of tyres using front and rear-specific fitments makes a lot of sense; using slightly worn tyres on the front is as close as you can come to this if you can't get front and rear- specific tyres.

Ask yourself what causes you to retire a tyre; is it (barring accidental damage) always

a) because the carcass fails when the tyre is old
b) the tyre tread wears out
c) the tyre suffers some kind of failure when it is still quite new because it was badly made.

If a) is the most common mode of failure then you are basically buying tyres that are crap by design and you should buy something else. b) should be the most common cause of failure . You can't stop c) from being a significant element because tyres are not made by robots; there is a always a chance of variability. I'd argue that if you choose your tyres well, c) is likely to account for more failures than a). If this is the case then the 'new front' scheme is less safe than the alternative, not more safe.

cheers

Brucey
I can count on one hand the number of front wheel punctures I've had in the past fifteen years*,and still have fingers left.
In the same time I can think of only a couple of defective tyres in the same time span and they weren't serious enough to be catastrophic,both tyres were micro splits Schalbe Marathon H368's andnthe reason we swapped over to Panaracer RibMo's on the tandems.

*I say fifteen year as the past five of those years my mileage has been pitifully low,but the first ten was an average of 7,500miles per annum 75,000miles in total
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