Non-indexed downtube shifters on 10sp

[David9694]

Some Shimano or Dia Compe downtube levers + some nice Brake levers are going to set you back about one-third of the cost of brifters.

I run several pairs of brifters and increasingly, I don’t “get” them. I don’t ride much on the drops - are you meant to be able to shift up and down from there? The click-chunk action was, I thought the big selling-point - if everything is in good order, you get that. (If it’s not, it’s fiddly.)

But so you do on non-index - I just swing the lever, across up to five cogs and off it goes and in, hardly ever needing to be trimmed. Finding the middle chainring is the trickiest and it helps if you know what rear gear you’re in to get right. Otherwise is push or pull the lever to the far end of its travel.

I don’t think I’m super skilled with my down-tube shifters I’m of the age where I was raised with them, but there’s nothing fiddly about controlling my 30s set-up

[Mike_Ayling]

Some Shimano or Dia Compe downtube levers + some nice Brake levers are going to set you back about one-third of the cost of brifters.

I run several pairs of brifters and increasingly, I don’t “get” them. I don’t ride much on the drops - are you meant to be able to shift up and down from there? The click-chunk action was, I thought the big selling-point - if everything is in good order, you get that. (If it’s not, it’s fiddly.)

But so you do on non-index - I just swing the lever, across up to five cogs and off it goes and in, hardly ever needing to be trimmed. Finding the middle chainring is the trickiest and it helps if you know what rear gear you’re in to get right. Otherwise is push or pull the lever to the far end of its travel.

I don’t think I’m super skilled with my down-tube shifters I’m of the age where I was raised with them, but there’s nothing fiddly about controlling my 30s set-up

Heresy!

One year AFAICR Lance Armstrong used a single down tube lever to shift his front rings but he did not do it the next year.


Mike

[Brucey]

quite a few riders used a DT lever for the front mech on mountain stages, in the days before weight limits etc. Original 8s STIs (esp in Dura Ace and Ultegra form) were rather heavy things.

cheers

[Cugel]

The great majority of modern frames have no fitting for downtube levers - the small square boss with a central screw thread pillar. Many frame of 10 years old don't either, as I realised when I tried to swap a bar-end LH lever for a down tube version so I could plug a mirror into the LH handlebar end of a 10 year old Specialized Tricross, instead of the bar-end lever. Generally the down tube has a couple of threaded bosses to take a cable adjuster; or an unthreaded boss to take a cable ferrule; or just a hole through which cables disappear inside the down tube to make a rattle.

Neither can one easily find a wrap-around strap with a gear lever boss. In any case, many modern down tubes are great fat things that would need a strap about a foot long!

Of course, an STI lever is actually a very fine thing if it's working well and properly set up. None of my several 9, 10 and 11-speed STI levers are problematic, not even the LH triple. They make changing gears a rapid and safe procedure, which was not always true of the un-indexed DT levers, especially in the extremis of a race. But even during everyday cycling, the ability to quickly change gear a bit late, as one rounds a bend to find a sudden hill, is a good thing, especially if the bend is a wet bad camber and requires both hands on the bars.

My only moan is that I can't find a triple LH hydraulic brake STI lever. This is another of those annoying lacks from Mr Shimano who says, "There's no call for such levers, as I've told 89 people asking for one today".

Cugel

[Mick F]

I don’t think I’m super skilled with my down-tube shifters I’m of the age where I was raised with them, but there’s nothing fiddly about controlling my 30s set-up

I have a thread on here from some years ago where I fitted my friction DT levers to my Campag 10sp Triple, and it worked easily and smoothly and excellently.

My 2006 Chorus RH Ergo is getting worn, and the bit that's worn isn't available any more. If and when it gives up, I won't be replacing it, but fitting brake levers and my friction DT levers. Easier, simpler and far far cheaper.

[pwa]

Personally, I like the click, click of rear indexing and find it easy to set up my (admittedly 9 speed) systems and keep them changing reliably with my bar end levers. Just like down tube levers but perched in a different place. It is front shifting that I like to be friction and not indexed. Infinite trim, not a meagre five indents or whatever it is. I find getting the shift right very easy, requiring almost no thought. Effortless. You can't improve on effortless.

[pwa]

I don’t think I’m super skilled with my down-tube shifters I’m of the age where I was raised with them, but there’s nothing fiddly about controlling my 30s set-up

I have a thread on here from some years ago where I fitted my friction DT levers to my Campag 10sp Triple, and it worked easily and smoothly and excellently.

My 2006 Chorus RH Ergo is getting worn, and the bit that's worn isn't available any more. If and when it gives up, I won't be replacing it, but fitting brake levers and my friction DT levers. Easier, simpler and far far cheaper.

There is beauty to be found in simplicity.

[iandriver]

Personally, I like the click, click of rear indexing and find it easy to set up my (admittedly 9 speed) systems and keep them changing reliably with my bar end levers. Just like down tube levers but perched in a different place. It is front shifting that I like to be friction and not indexed. Infinite trim, not a meagre five indents or whatever it is. I find getting the shift right very easy, requiring almost no thought. Effortless. You can't improve on effortless.

Exactly my experience also.

[bovlomov]

I've never experienced anything else, so can't compare, but I've never had any trouble finding the right cog on 2x5 or 2x6...

...until recently. For some reason, the middle cogs have become very hard to find, with lots of slipping and horrible crunching noises. I'm hoping it's a bent derailleur, or something simple. I don't think it can be a sticky chain link, as it would be a problem on the smallest cog too.

[iow]

Not tried 10 speed with DT shifters, but my experience with 9 speed is that both pure friction and indexed levers work well, but the 'micro-ratchets' on the Dia Compe ENE shifters are fractionally too coarse for reliable up-shifting. YMMV of course...

[JohnW]

This subject matter has been discussed on these threads quite a few times, but not really recently.
A pair of friction down tube (or bar-end, or stem-fitted) gear levers is compatible with just about everything else in the gear-train and is so simple.
I've said so previously, in these threads, but I was told that I was "banging an old drum".
It has been said that "the old ones are the best", but that was jokes, and he wasn't joking.

It's refreshing to know that the question is being resurrected, and people are beginning to see the value of someone's comment (above) that
"There is beauty to be found in simplicity". Well, yeah, absolutely.

Honestly, some of us were happily, safely, successfully using friction down-tube levers before some of our correspondents' fathers were born, and with no issues, no problems, and no worries about compatibility or ridiculous cost. ..........................and probably doing a lot more miles!

I wonder whether this thread heralds a realisation among the 'bright young things' that sophistication and complication are unnecessary. They may impress the fashionable and impressionable, but only lead to incompatibility, restriction of choice and a lot more cost.
Are we living and learning?

A problem, of course, is that generally modern frames won't accept down-tube levers and the high costs have become compulsory ...............is that a conspiracy? ....................BUT - The enlightened may find that Spa frames are suitable to accept them................a Yorkshire company, you see.

[JohnW]

Not tried 10 speed with DT shifters, but my experience with 9 speed is that both pure friction and indexed levers work well, but the 'micro-ratchets' on the Dia Compe ENE shifters are fractionally too coarse for reliable up-shifting. YMMV of course...

I ride an 8-speed cassette, with triple chainset with friction down-tube levers - no problem at all - everything compatible. The 35+ years old Simplex levers don't pull enough cable to run a 10-speed (dunno about 9-speed), but with 11-28 on the cassette, and 26-36-48 on the chainrings, does anyone need a wider range for road-biking?

What friction down-tube levers are you using?

[Mick F]

JohnW.
If there were a "Like" button, I'd press it.

If I were to live my cycling life again, I would keep friction DT levers. You and I have sung off the same hymn sheet each time this subject has come up. You can no doubt remember my test of DT friction and bypassing my Ergos. Must have been five or six years ago - could be more. I have rides records and make notes of them, and I recorded a DT shifter experiment, but the trouble with diaries, you need to know what year it was to begin searching! I saw it recently, but can't remember where/when. No doubt I'll come across it eventually.

Ergos are wonderful but friction DT is even wonderfuller. I didn't get on with STIs as the ergonomics of the hoods and levers were wrong IMHO, so with that bike, I changed to DuraAce indexed DT shifters. Excellent and simple and easy, but friction would be even simpler and easier.

[mig]

aren't ergos/STIs really just a racing thing that drifted into the mainstream on the back of marketing $ and became a must have? no geat advantage for every day riding.

[Mick F]

That's what I think.

I modernised my Mercian in 2004. It was a 7sp double with friction DT and I'd not ridden it much since leaving the RN in 1996. I bought a 9sp Triple Campag Mirage and Ergos and was delighted at this magic system! Two or three years later, improved to Chorus 10sp and that's where it's stayed since then.

The only improvement actually necessary IMHO was to go from screw-on 7sp to 10sp cassette (and a triple as I've become slower and older!) The rest of it could have stayed as it was and it was a waste of money to "improve" to the Ergo system. Likewise if I'd gone to STI stuff.