Shimano M324 pedal prob

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wearwell
Posts: 307
Joined: 3 Feb 2011, 8:45am

Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby wearwell » 22 Aug 2019, 1:04pm

Can't complain - I've had them for many years and can't recall ever oiling them.
Left hand one has started seizing - the ball race got rusty and friction drove the cone to tighten, i.e loosen away from the locknut. Ideally should have a left hand thread. Condition not too bad and serviceable, except I can't see how to lock the nut against the cone, without some very special spanners or something.
Is there a cunning trick instead?

PS I now see there is an expensive Shimano SPD Pedal Cone Adjuster Tool! Maybe have to bite the bullet - cheaper than new pedals and might get more use. :roll:
Last edited by wearwell on 22 Aug 2019, 1:09pm, edited 1 time in total.

Brucey
Posts: 35201
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby Brucey » 22 Aug 2019, 1:08pm

No cunning trick that works (not reliably anyway). You need the special tools, eg. TL-PD33. I made my own but its not for everyone.

FWIW shimano has revised the design of their SPD pedals in recent years; many now have a left handed thread for the cone and locknut, but only on the right hand pedal.

cheers
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wearwell
Posts: 307
Joined: 3 Feb 2011, 8:45am

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby wearwell » 22 Aug 2019, 1:18pm

Right. Tool ordered - £32! :shock:
I don't suppose I'll need it a second time as I will be lubricating pedals religiously from now on!

BruceJ
Posts: 43
Joined: 30 Jul 2008, 7:38pm

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby BruceJ » 22 Aug 2019, 1:35pm

Too late now, I know, but new set of M324s available from Wiggle at £32.99.

wearwell
Posts: 307
Joined: 3 Feb 2011, 8:45am

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby wearwell » 23 Aug 2019, 11:08am

BruceJ wrote:Too late now, I know, but new set of M324s available from Wiggle at £32.99.
Oh well!
But I'm really averse to scrapping stuff and would much rather repair. We probably have 20 or more bikes between us in my extended family so maybe the tool will pay for itself eventually.

alexnharvey
Posts: 755
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:39am

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby alexnharvey » 23 Aug 2019, 11:13am

Maybe you could rent it out on the forum.

Brucey
Posts: 35201
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby Brucey » 23 Aug 2019, 12:35pm

BTW the EV techdoc

https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-PD-M324-1972A.pdf

shows in the drawing 14 balls for the inboard bearing and 17 balls in the outboard bearing. This appears to be accurate; the bearing raceways seem to be of different sizes.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

keyboardmonkey
Posts: 635
Joined: 1 Dec 2009, 5:05pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby keyboardmonkey » 23 Aug 2019, 12:57pm

Brucey wrote:BTW the EV techdoc

https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-PD-M324-1972A.pdf

shows in the drawing 14 balls for the inboard bearing and 17 balls in the outboard bearing. This appears to be accurate; the bearing raceways seem to be of different sizes.

cheers


Yes, I have these pedals so I watched ‘RJ the bike guy’ service them in a YouTube video. I imagined he would have a resourceful workaround, but in fact he has the Shimano tool. He counted out 14 and 17 bearings...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n9D16t8WK00

reohn2
Posts: 35581
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby reohn2 » 23 Aug 2019, 1:12pm

FWIW if the pedals in question were as bad as the OP states there's no contest it'd be new pedals for me.
TBH IMO M324's bearings design are a bad one,I can't see any reason why they couldn't be similar to M520's :?
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I cycle therefore I am.

Brucey
Posts: 35201
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby Brucey » 23 Aug 2019, 1:29pm

reohn2 wrote:FWIW if the pedals in question were as bad as the OP states there's no contest it'd be new pedals for me.
TBH IMO M324's bearings design are a bad one,I can't see any reason why they couldn't be similar to M520's :?


I was thinking about this and I reasoned that the larger outboard bearing is probably deliberate, in view of the likely loading when the flat side is being used; street shoes/boots are usually wider than cycling shoes and this would place the load more on the outboard bearing. It probably needs to be stronger than the inboard bearing, because it will see higher loadings.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

reohn2
Posts: 35581
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby reohn2 » 23 Aug 2019, 1:33pm

Brucey wrote:
reohn2 wrote:FWIW if the pedals in question were as bad as the OP states there's no contest it'd be new pedals for me.
TBH IMO M324's bearings design are a bad one,I can't see any reason why they couldn't be similar to M520's :?


I was thinking about this and I reasoned that the larger outboard bearing is probably deliberate, in view of the likely loading when the flat side is being used; street shoes/boots are usually wider than cycling shoes and this would place the load more on the outboard bearing. It probably needs to be stronger than the inboard bearing, because it will see higher loadings.

cheers

I can't say I agree,especially when you look at rhe load M520's take for such a small axle pedal,some of mine are well over ten years old in regular use in all kinds of adverse conditions.
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I cycle therefore I am.

Brucey
Posts: 35201
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby Brucey » 23 Aug 2019, 1:38pm

my point is that you don't strap a platform over 4" wide to the 520s and then routinely stand on the edge of it. This will cause any bearing to clap out more easily; the loading is similar to that seen in folding pedals and the bearings in these clap out all the time, even good quality ones like MKS ones.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

reohn2
Posts: 35581
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby reohn2 » 23 Aug 2019, 2:17pm

Brucey wrote:my point is that you don't strap a platform over 4" wide to the 520s and then routinely stand on the edge of it. This will cause any bearing to clap out more easily; the loading is similar to that seen in folding pedals and the bearings in these clap out all the time, even good quality ones like MKS ones.

cheers

And my point is the the M520 bearing design is sound,so why can't the outboard bearing be beefed up a bit to counter extra load,not that Ithink it's as bad ayou make out TBH,but I'll bow to your greater engineering knowledge :wink:
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I cycle therefore I am.

Brucey
Posts: 35201
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby Brucey » 23 Aug 2019, 2:49pm

the M520 spindle assy is about as small as you can make an adjustable cup and cone cartridge assy so that it fits beneath the cleat mechanism. If you decide it needs to be beefed up it either


a) has to be made bigger and/or
b) has to be made so that it is no longer a cartridge assy.

In PD-M324 they effectively did the latter . Its annoying that you need a special tool but the spindle/cone parts (despite being built heavier/thicker than PD-M520) are probably still not beefy enough to allow the use of a tab washer. I have seen water get in and affect the inboard bearing of PD-M324 but I've only ever seen severe damage in the outboard bearing; I think this usually arises when the pedal is used on the flat side, by folk with wide shoes. Probably it starts out as a tiny bit of free play or the cone starts to precess and everything just snowballs from there. Folk who only ever use the SPD side (or have narrow feet/ normal shoes) create more uniform loads on the bearings; the pedals seem to last a very long time under these conditions.

In recent times shimano have made pedals such as PD-T8000 which uses a spindle cartridge which is laid out like the PD-M520 and could be used with wide shoes on the flat side, thus imposing adverse off-centre loads on the bearings . I don't think I've seen anyone buy such pedals and intend to use them mostly as flat pedals though; they are not 'starter' /commuting bike pedals in the same way as PD-M324 seem often to be.

There's also pedals like PD-MX80, which use a PD-M520-esque spindle cartridge in a flat pedal style. IME these don't last quite as long as they should do, and again it is the outer bearing which usually suffers, again I think for similar reasons.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

reohn2
Posts: 35581
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby reohn2 » 23 Aug 2019, 3:32pm

Brucey
Looking at an M324 the spindle body could be made a little larger to accomodate a larger outboard bearing similar to M520's,with no loss to performance.
TBF,we aren't talking cutting edge pro peloton high performance pedals,durability without £30+ special tools would be a step in the right direction from Mr Shimano on this one.
And even if the outboard bearing did wear more often,needing more servicing,it's a whole lot better than water ingress in pedal bearings ruining cups and cones beyond repair :wink:
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I cycle therefore I am.