Shimano M324 pedal prob

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wearwell
Posts: 307
Joined: 3 Feb 2011, 8:45am

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby wearwell » 23 Aug 2019, 4:47pm

reohn2 wrote:FWIW if the pedals in question were as bad as the OP states there's no contest it'd be new pedals for me.
TBH IMO M324's bearings design are a bad one,I can't see any reason why they couldn't be similar to M520's :?

No not bad at all. I've had them for many years and done 1000s of miles. I just forgot to squirt in a bit of oil once a year or so. I wondered about the 14/17 bearings, so thanks for the answer.

Brucey
Posts: 35230
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby Brucey » 23 Aug 2019, 7:20pm

reohn2 wrote:Brucey
Looking at an M324 the spindle body could be made a little larger to accomodate a larger outboard bearing similar to M520's,


the PD-M324 outboard bearing is already ~50% bigger and stronger than the outboard bearing in PD-M520 etc. and it arguably still isn't quite strong enough for that duty (if you use the flat side and mash away). Shimano wouldn't want to make SPD pedals with very different platform heights, so an overgrown spindle cartridge assy (appealing though it is in some ways) is a bit of a non-starter.


And even if the outboard bearing did wear more often,needing more servicing,it's a whole lot better than water ingress in pedal bearings ruining cups and cones beyond repair :wink:


you misunderstand perhaps; its not usually water that damages the outboard bearings in PD-M324, it is bad adjustment, bad lube, and horrible loadings. I mentioned water ingress into PD-M324 because that is the only damage I have ever seen in inboard bearings, and that hasn't ever been catastrophic.

FWIW I have been deliberately using a near-wrecked LH PD-M324 (which I acquired when already damaged for experimental purposes) for a couple of years now, to see what happens if you persist in trying to fight the inevitable. I took a look inside it yesterday and on the plus side, the amount of metal particles in the lube was less than when I last looked. But the outboard bearings are so badly worn that it really needs a new cup as well as a new cone. The wear patterns tell me very clearly that the damage was originally caused when the flat side was being used. The inboard bearing is , by contrast, almost perfect. The bearing was getting smoother as time went on, but I think it has plateaued now, and isn't going to get any better than 'not really good enough'. It also hasn't stopped wearing either.

cheers

Brucey
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

reohn2
Posts: 35602
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby reohn2 » 23 Aug 2019, 7:27pm

OK,OK already
I surrender! :wink:
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I cycle therefore I am.

Brucey
Posts: 35230
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby Brucey » 23 Aug 2019, 8:55pm

reohn2 wrote:OK,OK already
I surrender! :wink:


it is not a bad thought, but I think that the net result wouldn't be quite good enough for the anticipated use. There are other shimano pedals that do use the cartridge bearing system and have a flat one side but they mostly don't offer such a wide grippy platform at a lowish price. Recently they have produced a pedal which is essentially a revised version of PD-A530, but with studs on the platform for grip; it still isn't wide enough for anyone wearing clodhoppers though. Once thought is that most folk would be better off if they used pedal extenders with this pedal if they intend to use wide street shoes...?

I agree that PD-M520 bearings are extraordinarily long-lasting in most cases; I do look after mine but some folk don't and still get good life out them. When you take the bearings apart the balls are so tiny you think there must have been a mistake or something, but that is how they are meant to be.... :shock:

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

reohn2
Posts: 35602
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby reohn2 » 23 Aug 2019, 9:27pm

Brucey wrote:
reohn2 wrote:OK,OK already
I surrender! :wink:


it is not a bad thought, but I think that the net result wouldn't be quite good enough for the anticipated use. There are other shimano pedals that do use the cartridge bearing system and have a flat one side but they mostly don't offer such a wide grippy platform at a lowish price. Recently they have produced a pedal which is essentially a revised version of PD-A530, but with studs on the platform for grip; it still isn't wide enough for anyone wearing clodhoppers though. Once thought is that most folk would be better off if they used pedal extenders with this pedal if they intend to use wide street shoes...?

Now there's a thought,the whole bearing assembly could be extended further outboard therebye sovling the problem :wink:

I agree that PD-M520 bearings are extraordinarily long-lasting in most cases; I do look after mine but some folk don't and still get good life out them. When you take the bearings apart the balls are so tiny you think there must have been a mistake or something, but that is how they are meant to be.... :shock:

cheers

I have a pair of M520's over ten years old that I stupidly broke the nylon threaded release collar by turning it the wrong way :roll: the first time I tried to servicing the pedals :?
That pedal has been used like that for many tens of thousepands of miles unable to be stripped and though it has a small amount of play in the bearings it' still doing sterking service :)
Remarkable really when,as you say,thy run on such small bearings :wink:
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

Brucey
Posts: 35230
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby Brucey » 24 Aug 2019, 12:01am

a long time ago, one of my chums presented me with a pair of SPDs which he had been 'servicing'. He'd managed to screw the left spindle assy into the right pedal body and the right spindle assy into the left pedal body. Obviously the plastic sleeves have got different threads and had got badly jammed. One had sheared off. Anyway both were removed by simply heating up the pedal body with a gas torch; a little over 150C was plenty enough to soften the plastic and out they came.

You can (or could, certainly) buy the sleeves separately (*), and once the pedals had been cleaned up and fitted with new sleeves, they were just fine.

(*) they are -for reasons best known to shimano- known as 'lock bolts' and are £2.99 each from SJS.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

wearwell
Posts: 307
Joined: 3 Feb 2011, 8:45am

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby wearwell » 24 Aug 2019, 9:16am

Brucey wrote:......
you misunderstand perhaps; its not usually water that damages the outboard bearings in PD-M324, it is bad adjustment, bad lube, and horrible loadings. I mentioned water ingress into PD-M324 because that is the only damage I have ever seen in inboard bearings, and that hasn't ever been catastrophic.....

The inboard bearings were fine. The outer was affected by water - due in turn to my neglect of routine maintenence. They probably want oiling about once every two years - more if the bike regularly submerged or left outside for long periods.
Checking back old photos - I had them in 2004, if not earlier - could have been from from previous bike.

Brucey
Posts: 35230
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby Brucey » 24 Aug 2019, 9:47am

I've seen a few pedals (of all types) where the outboard bearing has had some corrosion evident, but the inboard bearing hasn't. Yet one would expect the dustcap to be watertight, so how does the water get in?. I have wondered if such corrosion is in fact caused by condensation, and once there is liquid water present, it takes longer to dry out in the outboard bearing because there is no good vent.

Certainly the grease that shimano use in their pedals and hubs doesn't seem to contain much in the way of corrosion inhibitors; it seems to be very easily overwhelmed by almost any water ingress.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

keyboardmonkey
Posts: 637
Joined: 1 Dec 2009, 5:05pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby keyboardmonkey » 24 Aug 2019, 9:58am

Given that the original Shimano grease is felt to be not so good, the proper tool is more than the price of the pedals and the inboard bearings seem to look after themselves, would it be prudent to prise off the dust cap from time to time and squidge in some grease until it overflows? Would that be better than nowt maintenance-wise? If yes what grease?

Brucey
Posts: 35230
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby Brucey » 24 Aug 2019, 10:13am

almost any fresh grease is better than no grease or old grease (in which the corrosion inhibitors have been exhausted). However if you want the best grease then something which has solid lubricants, EP additives and is meant for an external application is likely to both provide the best protection and be the most long lasting.

The layout of the pedal is such that there is a significant airspace behind the dustcap but there is not a large volume elsewhere inside the pedal. Indeed there is a plastic sleeve inside the pedal body near the inboard bearing. This means that you can regrease the pedal by simply filling the space by the outboard bearing with grease and then (eg. using thumb pressure) forcing it through. When you refit the dustcap you will probably see more old grease be forced from the inboard bearing.

After a few years the inboard seal on PD-M324 tends to perish and fail, which lets the water in. This seal can be replaced with the shimano part, or, for pennies, you can pop a couple of O rings on instead. Either can be slipped over the threaded part of the pedal spindle, so no disassembly is required.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

keyboardmonkey
Posts: 637
Joined: 1 Dec 2009, 5:05pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby keyboardmonkey » 24 Aug 2019, 3:04pm

Ouch. Just winced at the price of the Weldtite grease I bought a while back. How about this as a refill...?

https://www.screwfix.com/p/multipurpose ... 00ml/8436p

fastpedaller
Posts: 2040
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby fastpedaller » 24 Aug 2019, 11:00pm

keyboardmonkey wrote:Ouch. Just winced at the price of the Weldtite grease I bought a while back. How about this as a refill...?

https://www.screwfix.com/p/multipurpose ... 00ml/8436p


I'd say it's for high load and high temperature conditions, so possibly not as good as others?

fastpedaller
Posts: 2040
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby fastpedaller » 24 Aug 2019, 11:10pm

For Shimano M520 what is the suggestion for maintenance?
a) leave well alone, but strip if there seems to be a problem
b) Strip after a set number of miles/years usage to clean and regrease
c) After a set number of miles/years, remove the plastic inner shield, squirt in some SFG and replace the plastic shield, but do nothing else unless there are signs of a problem?

keyboardmonkey
Posts: 637
Joined: 1 Dec 2009, 5:05pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby keyboardmonkey » 24 Aug 2019, 11:31pm

fastpedaller wrote:
keyboardmonkey wrote:Ouch. Just winced at the price of the Weldtite grease I bought a while back. How about this as a refill...?

https://www.screwfix.com/p/multipurpose ... 00ml/8436p


I'd say it's for high load and high temperature conditions, so possibly not as good as others?

All right. So what would be a recommended one from those other alternatives, please?

fastpedaller
Posts: 2040
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Shimano M324 pedal prob

Postby fastpedaller » 24 Aug 2019, 11:53pm

I tend to use Silkolene RG2 grease, which (I'll shoot myself in the foot here) is also described as a high temp resistant grease. The feature that appeals to me with this grease though is that it is VERY water/dirt resistant. I have (as an example) a Shimano Acera X rear hub which I'd really abused (ridden on the beach and in sea) and after 5 years use I stripped it and the grease near the surface was a little discoloured, but no water had got in and the bearings were perfect. I smear his grease on the ends on the bearings of ST sealed bottom brackets when they are new, as a 'belt and braces' measure, just in case any water gets near, it also performs well in my rear derailleur jockey wheels (again, very little ingress after many miles).