Quill stem to A head adapter frozen in steerer

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Blackredgold1964
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Joined: 21 Dec 2007, 11:03pm

Quill stem to A head adapter frozen in steerer

Postby Blackredgold1964 » 30 Aug 2019, 11:17pm

Hi All,
The quill stem to A head adapter is frozen in the steerer.
This video goes through all the stages (degreaser, vinegar, tapping with hammer, and finally sawing out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GRbdnTRH-4

I've so far done only the beginning stage, i.e. taped the top of the adapter, put the bike upside down, sprayed a whole can of Halfords Releaser oil via several stages into the steerer. However, it doesn't move. The taping of the gaps in the steerer was not successful anyway, the oil dripped out very quickly.
I think the adapter does not have a 'wedge' but a 'disc' shaped thing at the bottom. I removed the very long screw and the 'disc' came loose. It is now no longer horizontal as it should be but vertical in the steerer.
I'll go next week to the bike shop and I assume someone has to saw the adapter out eventually.
Or would someone have an idea that's not mentioned above of in the video?.
Thanks in advance
Blackredgold
steerer.JPG

boblo
Posts: 607
Joined: 24 Sep 2009, 7:35pm

Re: Quill stem to A head adapter frozen in steerer

Postby boblo » 31 Aug 2019, 8:57am

It has the same seizing issues as a quill stem and needs removing periodically and regreasing to stop that. For removal, Google 'seized quill stem'...
Last edited by boblo on 1 Sep 2019, 11:35am, edited 2 times in total.

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horizon
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Location: Cornwall

Re: Quill stem to A head adapter frozen in steerer

Postby horizon » 31 Aug 2019, 9:48am

boblo wrote:It has the same seizing issues a quill stem and needs removing periodically and regreasing to stop that. For removal, Google 'seized quill stem'...


It's interesting that it is a converter/adaptor that has seized as that would be a (relatively) recent addition to the bike whereas the original quill stem could have been in for decades. Maybe there's some hope therefore.
I have two doctors, my left leg and my right leg. (G. M. Trevelyan)
PS I always wondered why the YHA HQ was called Trevelyan House. :)

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cycleruk
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Re: Quill stem to A head adapter frozen in steerer

Postby cycleruk » 31 Aug 2019, 10:02am

Having this type of adapter, would removing the stem allow the fork to completely removed from the bike.
If so may be easier to work on. :?:
There's no such thing as a tailwind.
It's either a headwind, or you're going well.

boblo
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Re: Quill stem to A head adapter frozen in steerer

Postby boblo » 31 Aug 2019, 10:34am

cycleruk wrote:Having this type of adapter, would removing the stem allow the fork to completely removed from the bike.
If so may be easier to work on. :?:


Well it's most likely stepped from 1" to 11/8" which traps the top of the headset. Unless you can remove (or cut) the adapter, the fork's trapped in the frame.

Jamesh
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Re: Quill stem to A head adapter frozen in steerer

Postby Jamesh » 31 Aug 2019, 11:01am

Cut the top off which should allow the forks to be removed,
then take to a engineering firm to drill it out with a 22mm drill.

Cheers James

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531colin
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Re: Quill stem to A head adapter frozen in steerer

Postby 531colin » 31 Aug 2019, 11:54am

Theres a whole thread about this in "Technical..too good to lose"...actually written about seat posts, but it all still applies.
Cut the top off the adapter, if that's what you have to do to get the forks out, then give the top of the adapter a sharp crack with a one pound hammer. This is often enough to break the oxide which binds them in. I wouldn,t do it with the forks in, unless you are going to replace the headset anyway, in which case it can't harm.
if it moves down, it'll twist, and if it twists....you know the rest.
If a sharp crack doesn't move it, next port of call is warming it all up for long enough to dry out the oxide and get some thin oil in its place...you will need forks out for this.
if you have to go all the way to the bitter end, ie destructive methods of removal, DON'T get somebody to run a 22mm drill down it. A 20mm drill or smaller is enough, 20mm hole will only leave 1mm of Ali and you can pick that out. 22mm risks damaging something (steerer in this case) because the adapter isn't necessarily that accurately made, and the drill can wander anyway.....the steel steerer is only about 1/16th of an inch thick and you don't want to compromise it! there are also chemical methods, both destructive and non-destructive.

Brucey
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Re: Quill stem to A head adapter frozen in steerer

Postby Brucey » 31 Aug 2019, 12:14pm

Q. why do you want to remove it?

cheers
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Mick F
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Re: Quill stem to A head adapter frozen in steerer

Postby Mick F » 1 Sep 2019, 7:43am

Good question Brucey.
If it were mine, I'd want to remove it BECAUSE it's seized.

The problem will only get worse.
Mick F. Cornwall

PT1029
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Re: Quill stem to A head adapter frozen in steerer

Postby PT1029 » 1 Sep 2019, 8:33am

Looking at the photo, I think the stem has a shim between the extension and the adaptor, in which case the adaptor is 22mm/1"size all the way to the top. If so you can remove the handle bar extension then drop the forks out of the frame (undo headset etc) allowing access to heat the fork column enough to dry out water etc before trying to twist/hit/remove etc.
If you plan to reuse the adaptor, I'd put some hard wood at the top before hitting. For maximum effect, I'd support the forks under the fork crown when hitting - if just resting the forks on the floor, the fork blades sping when hit, reducing the impact. I've also known (cheap) dropouts to close up when this was being done.
In my experience, hitting siezed items is best done with some momentum, ie, something very heavy. I usually use a heafty length of wooden fence post on these occasions, the momonentum has some umph even if you hit it quite slowly.

Blackredgold1964
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Re: Quill stem to A head adapter frozen in steerer

Postby Blackredgold1964 » 5 Sep 2019, 10:40pm

Hello everyone,
Apologies for not replying earlier but bike issues have not been my only problem - IT issues I've had too so could not get to this forum.

Thanks for all your suggestions though - I hadn't even thought about taking the fork out. However, it might be possible as indeed there's a shim on the adapter - will try removing on the weekend, or taking to shop.

The reason I even noticed it's seized was when I wanted to readjust the steering. This had become 'clicky', suggesting the races are worn. And I also want to have it loose as it's simply wrong when stuck.

TooManyBikes
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Location: Notts/Derbys border.

Re: Quill stem to A head adapter frozen in steerer

Postby TooManyBikes » 5 Sep 2019, 11:13pm

Lots of heat to clamp area to expand it via plumbers butane torch or hot air gun, remove 2 clamp bolts and use a flat blade screwdriver cautiously to spread the gap in the clamping area, while trying to twist bars? just an idea.
My name is Michael, And I have too many bikes.

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horizon
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Re: Quill stem to A head adapter frozen in steerer

Postby horizon » 6 Sep 2019, 1:46am

Brucey wrote:Q. why do you want to remove it?

cheers


Another passing thought: the frame is old (it's a quill stem). Unless it is of immense sentimental value or was used in the first James Bond film, its probable value once the stem is unstuck is about £50 or in fact really nil. To replace second hand say £50.00 maximum. I would suggest removing (some of) the parts and scrapping the frame. There are various reasons frames reach the end of their useful lives and this is one of them.

Bikes are recyclable, thank goodness.
I have two doctors, my left leg and my right leg. (G. M. Trevelyan)
PS I always wondered why the YHA HQ was called Trevelyan House. :)

pwa
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Re: Quill stem to A head adapter frozen in steerer

Postby pwa » 6 Sep 2019, 8:52am

This issue is the main reason I would never buy another bike with a quill stem or adaptor. Yes, I know you should take them out and re-grease periodically, but I remember doing that and not being able to get the thing to grip even after tightening the bolt beyond what I thought was wise. I don't like that system at all.
Last edited by pwa on 6 Sep 2019, 9:37am, edited 1 time in total.

Brucey
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Re: Quill stem to A head adapter frozen in steerer

Postby Brucey » 6 Sep 2019, 9:17am

what I'm seeing is

'all quill stems are rubbish'

and

'scrap the bike'


surely this is something of an overreaction to a clicky headset bearing?


FWIW I'd oil the bearings (with the bike upside down) and see how that went. That might solve the problem; you can add grease later to provide more long-lived lubrication. After all, headset bearings don't need to be perfect in every way, just free enough to steer the bike and not loose enough to rattle much over bumps. FWIW even the most abbreviated front mudguard will prevent most crud from being thrown into the lower headset bearing, and hence may prevent a recurrence of such headset issues.

I would also note that provided you can raise the threaded race about 1/4", you can remove clipped balls from most older headsets (just cut the clip), and replace them with loose balls instead; much better. So if there is enough room to do that, you can perhaps repair the headset that way.

In any event if the bike can be ridden whilst regular doses of penetrating oil etc are allowed to do their work then you can postpone the evil day when you need to get brutal with the quill stem adaptor.

FWIW whilst there is a limit on the amount of time and effort that is worthwhile expending on any bike repair, saying the bike is only worth £50 is kind of besides the point; its rarely that simple. My kingdom for a nail, anyone...?

cheers
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