Pocket wheel truer??

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paulkay
Posts: 1
Joined: 24 Jul 2019, 5:26pm

Re: Pocket wheel truer??

Postby paulkay » 3 Sep 2019, 4:03pm

How many cable ties can you buy for the cost of that tool? :D

slowster
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Re: Pocket wheel truer??

Postby slowster » 3 Sep 2019, 4:37pm

Sweep wrote:the whole spoke calculation thing fills me with a certain dread I have left comfortably in the past since I departed O level maths

There is no maths involved. As per Musson's book you just need two spokes with the J bend end cut off and both shortened to around 200mm. Stick the two spokes in opposing spoke holes in the rim, and measure the gap between the tips of the spokes and add 400mm to give you the Effective Rim Diameter. You then just plug the measurements into the calculator on his website to get the spoke lengths required.

Re-rimming an existing wheel may be less daunting than the prospect of building a wheel from scratch, but as a novice myself I would urge to you to just have a go and build a wheel. A Deore hub, LX17 or Sputnik rim and spokes from Spa is relatively inexpensive (and Spa will calculate the spoke length for you if you buy rim, hub and spokes from them). My approach was to do just one step at a time, and then leave it for a day or two or even longer before the next phase. When I was in the final tensioning stages some days I just tightened each spoke a quarter or half turn, adjusted for trueness, and then stopped for the day. You can put it aside when you've had enough, and only resume when you are in the mood to do so. You are not working under any pressure, so you can take as long as you want.

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Pocket wheel truer??

Postby Brucey » 3 Sep 2019, 4:47pm

Sweep wrote:...You can tell I'm tempted folks can't you :)


don't be; there's no real benefit to be had over many other methods of deploying a pointer of some kind.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

wheel71
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Joined: 4 Nov 2015, 12:25pm
Location: SW Ireland

Re: Pocket wheel truer??

Postby wheel71 » 3 Sep 2019, 4:50pm

Building your own wheels is great. I've been doing it for the last 30 years. I still pick up usefull tips I never thought of even after all this time.
And another vote up for the thumb on the chainstay, did that for years in my younger days when I couldn't afford a jig. You can check the dish of your wheel just by turning the hub around in the jig but a dishing tool can make life a bit easier, especially when your jigs gone out of center like mine seems to have :twisted: :lol:
You could also find an old wheel (as long as the nipples work) and practice on that.

reohn2
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Re: Pocket wheel truer??

Postby reohn2 » 3 Sep 2019, 5:40pm

Buetack,allen key job's a gud 'un :wink:
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Sweep
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Re: Pocket wheel truer??

Postby Sweep » 3 Sep 2019, 7:03pm

paulkay wrote:How many cable ties can you buy for the cost of that tool? :D


ah, but I like tools - like collecting standard bike stuff and becoming more and more self sufficient.

(Have just learned how to use the third hand I bought years ago)

Also, I don't like throwing stuff away - I reckon most zip ties are cut off after a single use and chucked in the trash.

(I admire folk not buying stuff/bodging but after the balance of replies on this thread I rather wonder if any of you have ever bought a wheel tool of any sort. I wouldn't put it past some of you to be using a dead relative's index finger :)
Sweep

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Sweep
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Re: Pocket wheel truer??

Postby Sweep » 3 Sep 2019, 7:09pm

Brucey wrote:
Sweep wrote:...You can tell I'm tempted folks can't you :)


don't be; there's no real benefit to be had over many other methods of deploying a pointer of some kind.

cheers


Tis too late brucey I am afraid - ordered.

(though you may be encouraged/pleased to know that I am rather struggling with the methodology behind a recent purchase - the Tacx brake pad liner-upper - on my last brake pad adjust I reverted to my usual bits of cardboard and one of my ever trusty ball bungees - the ball bungee has a thousand and one innocent and nefarious applications.

all the best, thanks for all your advice.
Sweep

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Sweep
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Re: Pocket wheel truer??

Postby Sweep » 3 Sep 2019, 7:13pm

slowster wrote:
Sweep wrote:the whole spoke calculation thing fills me with a certain dread I have left comfortably in the past since I departed O level maths

There is no maths involved. As per Musson's book you just need two spokes with the J bend end cut off and both shortened to around 200mm. Stick the two spokes in opposing spoke holes in the rim, and measure the gap between the tips of the spokes and add 400mm to give you the Effective Rim Diameter. You then just plug the measurements into the calculator on his website to get the spoke lengths required.

Re-rimming an existing wheel may be less daunting than the prospect of building a wheel from scratch, but as a novice myself I would urge to you to just have a go and build a wheel. A Deore hub, LX17 or Sputnik rim and spokes from Spa is relatively inexpensive (and Spa will calculate the spoke length for you if you buy rim, hub and spokes from them). My approach was to do just one step at a time, and then leave it for a day or two or even longer before the next phase. When I was in the final tensioning stages some days I just tightened each spoke a quarter or half turn, adjusted for trueness, and then stopped for the day. You can put it aside when you've had enough, and only resume when you are in the mood to do so. You are not working under any pressure, so you can take as long as you want.


Many thanks for this slowster - yes I was exaggerating a tad - I know you don't have to do calculations, just input stuff into online tools.

Your system of taking your time, doing it in stages seems like a good one, though that would lead me towards buying a collapsible trueing stand rather than an upturned bike.

It sounds that like me, and I guess many on here, you have several bikes and sets of wheels so no great pressure to get the new wheel sorted within a day.

Good to hear that Spa are so helpful.

That said I may well start a separate thread on uses of old forks as trueing stands.

Wheel building/rebuilding is the last thing (as in the next on the cards) I need to learn how to do - I will then be happy to leave everything else (basically the rare event when I might need a headset inserting) to a bike shop.

thanks again.
Sweep

iandriver
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Re: Pocket wheel truer??

Postby iandriver » 3 Sep 2019, 7:43pm

I don't know how fussy some are on tour, but when the baggage handlers had finished with my front wheel somewhere between Heathrow and Italy, I just trued it up roughly by eye and forgot about it. Didn't seem to matter one little bit. Guess that was the brake block method.
Supporter of the A10 corridor cycling campaign serving Royston to Cambridge http://a10corridorcycle.com. Never knew gardening secateurs were an essential part of the on bike tool kit until I took up campaigning.....

fastpedaller
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Location: Norfolk

Re: Pocket wheel truer??

Postby fastpedaller » 3 Sep 2019, 8:36pm

Sweep wrote:
paulkay wrote:How many cable ties can you buy for the cost of that tool? :D


ah, but I like tools - like collecting standard bike stuff and becoming more and more self sufficient.

(Have just learned how to use the third hand I bought years ago)

Also, I don't like throwing stuff away - I reckon most zip ties are cut off after a single use and chucked in the trash.

(I admire folk not buying stuff/bodging but after the balance of replies on this thread I rather wonder if any of you have ever bought a wheel tool of any sort. I wouldn't put it past some of you to be using a dead relative's index finger :)


Just make a dishing tool using 3 bits of wood and a wood screw - very little cost, very accurate (as long as the wood isn't bendy in the plane required)

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Pocket wheel truer??

Postby Brucey » 3 Sep 2019, 8:43pm

Sweep wrote:
ah, but I like tools - like collecting standard bike stuff and becoming more and more self sufficient.



there are some tools you really can't do without. But there are others which are simply not necessary.

What is necessary is the skill required to do the job. You can't buy that, you just need to get stuck in.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

pwa
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Re: Pocket wheel truer??

Postby pwa » 3 Sep 2019, 9:15pm

fastpedaller wrote:
Sweep wrote:
paulkay wrote:How many cable ties can you buy for the cost of that tool? :D


ah, but I like tools - like collecting standard bike stuff and becoming more and more self sufficient.

(Have just learned how to use the third hand I bought years ago)

Also, I don't like throwing stuff away - I reckon most zip ties are cut off after a single use and chucked in the trash.

(I admire folk not buying stuff/bodging but after the balance of replies on this thread I rather wonder if any of you have ever bought a wheel tool of any sort. I wouldn't put it past some of you to be using a dead relative's index finger :)


Just make a dishing tool using 3 bits of wood and a wood screw - very little cost, very accurate (as long as the wood isn't bendy in the plane required)

You don't even need a dishing tool with most bike frames. You just have to flip the rear wheel within the frame now and then to ensure the rim is in the same place whether the sprockets are on the right (as they should be) or on the left.

2Phat4Rapha
Posts: 26
Joined: 1 Dec 2010, 1:58pm

Re: Pocket wheel truer??

Postby 2Phat4Rapha » 3 Sep 2019, 9:36pm

Can use a cut down spoke rather that a GT85 straw and you even have a light to see by :D
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keyboardmonkey
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Joined: 1 Dec 2009, 5:05pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: Pocket wheel truer??

Postby keyboardmonkey » 3 Sep 2019, 9:49pm

Sweep wrote:...https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Unior-Pocket-W ... gKFpfD_BwE

Any use?

Oh - and do folk have views on Unior wheel tools and tools in general?

I must admit I don't know anything about them.


By chance I bought a Unior chain checker a few years ago from a local bike shop. I can't recall seeing any other Unior kit in that or any other LBS.

Unior and Park Tool chain checkers.jpg
Park Tool CC-3.2 and Unior 1644/2

The background to the Slovenian toolmaker is interesting IMO. For the domestic and European market their tools are a pale blue, but when they tried to introduce their range in to the USA they were blocked by Park Tool, who had somehow successfully trademarked the colour blue. So in the USA Unior's tools are a reddish colour. You have to be logged in to Instagram to see the 'story', but you can see this issue referred to by the image and words 'Blue or red?' here: https://www.instagram.com/uniorbiketools/?hl=en

It's not so easy to find their stuff online, either. Unless you go through a couple of web sites that are off the grid somewhat. (I don't like to share my credit card details across too many different transactional web sites and tend to stick with Amazon - I know, sorry.)

When I was thinking about buying tools for working on disc brake bikes I was interested in the combined rotor truing fork and pad spreader (1757/2DP) - https://uniortools.com/eng/product/1757 ... ool#881686 - which I've only ever seen on Amazon.co.uk as 'currently unavailable'. Plus it's in that pale red and orangey colour. Oh, dear.

Whoever runs one of Unior's social media platforms followed one of my accounts. I followed back and asked about availability of the 2-in-1 disc brake tool. No response. I think there is a distribution problem generally AFAICT. (There is also yet another rear derailleur hanger alignment tool, the 'Hanger genie', which doesn't seem to have reached these shores just yet.)

Sweep wrote:
Brucey wrote:
Sweep wrote:...You can tell I'm tempted folks can't you :)


don't be; there's no real benefit to be had over many other methods of deploying a pointer of some kind.

cheers


Tis too late brucey I am afraid - ordered...


The always good value David Rome at Cycling Tips reviewed an 18-piece Unior toolkit. The one tool that stood out as not being up to snuff was the pocket wheel truing tool. Read about it, and Unior more generally, here - https://cyclingtips.com/2019/02/unior-p ... it-review/ - but below is the executive summary for a tool that "works, but then so does a zip tie..."

"The included truing tool frustrated me. It takes up so much room within the foam layout, and has a habit of dropping out everytime the case is opened. It also doesn’t strap onto thin frame tubes with the security I want when truing a wheel, and I’d sooner reach for a zip-tie around the frame if a truing stand weren’t available."

Brucey
Posts: 35979
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Pocket wheel truer??

Postby Brucey » 3 Sep 2019, 10:22pm

keyboardmonkey wrote: …. It also doesn’t strap onto thin frame tubes with the security I want when truing a wheel, and I’d sooner reach for a zip-tie around the frame if a truing stand weren’t available[/i]."


I guessed from the look of it that it wouldn't be secure on thin tubes such as seat stays, but didn't bother saying so because there are already enough things about it that make it of little interest to most folk.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~