Cantilever brakes ..... HELP !!!

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reohn2
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Re: Cantilever brakes ..... HELP !!!

Postby reohn2 » 14 Sep 2019, 4:27pm

Brucey wrote:Tektro 992, AKA Tektro 'oryx'

Image


levers?

setup?

Before the inevitable cries of 'those brakes are crap' I would just like to mention that 'those brakes' can vary at least a factor of two in power depending on how they are set up, what levers are used, etc.

cheers

If they're like the ones above,it appears they're fitted with road type slip in cartridge pads(someone correct me if I'm wrong),if so then you need to buy either Koolstop slip in cartridge pads :- https://www.wiggle.co.uk/kool-stop-dura ... xiEALw_wcB
or BBB slip in cartridge pads
https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/123026360613?c ... -tEALw_wcB
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mcshroom
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Re: Cantilever brakes ..... HELP !!!

Postby mcshroom » 20 Sep 2019, 11:40am

I think Oryx normally come with v-brake style 72mm pads. The ones on my Dawes Horizon did at any rate.

I've toured round the Scottish Highlands with over 115 kg of me and full camping gear using Oryx front and rear, so they can definitely work (mine were paired with 2300 levers), but a little contamination or dampness can seriously reduce their stopping power. I still have the one on the rear, which is also fine with a longer pull R2000 shifter that is now fitted IMHO, but I found replacing the front one with a Textro RX-5 solved a long standing judder problem I had with the front fork*.

I use the Clarks 3 colour pads which are softer than Kool Stops but seem to brake well in my experience. I'd prefer to wear out blocks over rims anyway. Koolstop Salmon Pads are probably the grippiest pads I've ever used on a bike, butin my experience, they really like to squeal, however they are set up, as soon as it rains.

*I suppose that could have been fixed with a fork crown cable hanger, but then I would have had to fiddle around matching up the cable hanger and the dynamo light mount.

Brucey
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Re: Cantilever brakes ..... HELP !!!

Postby Brucey » 20 Sep 2019, 11:52am

like I said upthread, there is more than one version of the Oryx brake. One common feature is that -regardless of size- they all come from new with tektro brake blocks, which are not at all difficult to improve upon.

Another common feature is that the slotted arm has the slot machined at such an angle that the straddle can't be lowered enough (to give really high MA) without the straddle being kinked. This can cause brake centring problems.

FWIW to give good power with Oryx brakes I've had to respace the brake blocks on some frames (to spread the arms wide enough), and lower the straddle. To avoid centring problems I've modified the slot with a small radius that eases the straddle kinking issue.

cheers
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horizon
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Re: Cantilever brakes ..... HELP !!!

Postby horizon » 20 Sep 2019, 11:54am

mcshroom wrote:
I've toured round the Scottish Highlands with over 115 kg of me and full camping gear using Oryx front and rear, so they can definitely work



Is that you at 115 kg plus camping gear or including camping gear? And you then have to add in the weight of the bike I would have thought and that's about 15 kg.

The two other factors are steepness of hill and rain. Am I right in thinking that speed and length of hill aren't really factors as the brakes will either work (fade/heat aside) or not to mitigate the effects of either?

I've just come back from a brief camping trip (75 kg + 25 kg + 17 kg), dry but seriously steep Cornish hills but no issues at all with my Tektro cantis.
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mcshroom
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Re: Cantilever brakes ..... HELP !!!

Postby mcshroom » 20 Sep 2019, 11:56am

horizon wrote:
mcshroom wrote:
I've toured round the Scottish Highlands with over 115 kg of me and full camping gear using Oryx front and rear, so they can definitely work



Is that you at 115 kg plus camping gear or including camping gear? And you then have to add in the weight of the bike I would have thought and that's about 15 kg.

The two other factors are steepness of hill and rain. Am I right in thinking that speed and length of hill aren't really factors as the brakes will either work (fade/heat aside) or not to mitigate the effects of either?

I've just come back from a brief camping trip (75 kg + 25 kg + 17 kg), dry but seriously steep Cornish hills but no issues at all with my Tektro cantis.


Unfortunately, that's just me, before you add the bike or the gear :oops:

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horizon
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Re: Cantilever brakes ..... HELP !!!

Postby horizon » 20 Sep 2019, 12:10pm

mcshroom wrote:
Unfortunately, that's just me, before you add the bike or the gear :oops:


Well, that just proves how good the brakes are! :D

Just to add, mine are Oryx at the front and CR720 at the rear (I've just checked). There are some good reviews of the CR720 here:

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brakes/tekt ... ver-brake/
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pwa
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Re: Cantilever brakes ..... HELP !!!

Postby pwa » 20 Sep 2019, 12:34pm

horizon wrote:
mcshroom wrote:
Unfortunately, that's just me, before you add the bike or the gear :oops:


Well, that just proves how good the brakes are! :D

Just to add, mine are Oryx at the front and CR720 at the rear (I've just checked). There are some good reviews of the CR720 here:

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brakes/tekt ... ver-brake/

I have CR520s which are 720s in black. And they work at least as well as the Oryx they replaced but with nicer quality.

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horizon
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Re: Cantilever brakes ..... HELP !!!

Postby horizon » 20 Sep 2019, 1:35pm

pwa wrote:I have CR520s which are 720s in black. And they work at least as well as the Oryx they replaced but with nicer quality.


It may be of course that we just don't realise what we are missing. :shock:

But I have to say that getting up the hills quickly enough (or at all) was far more at the front of my mind than getting down them slowly enough. :mrgreen:
Let's just get Brexit done so that we can get on with the important job of re-joining the EU!

Brucey
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Re: Cantilever brakes ..... HELP !!!

Postby Brucey » 20 Sep 2019, 2:00pm

pwa wrote:I have CR520s which are 720s in black. And they work at least as well as the Oryx they replaced but with nicer quality.


IIRC the difference between 520 and 720 is not the colour but that the 720 has cartridge brake blocks from new and the 520 doesn't. Both ought to be available in black or silver finish.

The 520/720 type brake has a lower MA than the Oryx style (unless the Oryx setup is especially poor), but (on any given frame) the brake is liable to feel more direct, i.e. the lever needs to be pulled less far between the brake coming on and full power. I think that some people must prefer that feel, even if the MA is lower.

cheers
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bigjim
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Re: Cantilever brakes ..... HELP !!!

Postby bigjim » 20 Sep 2019, 2:40pm

I've got the Sora brakes couplied with cantis on a Saracen Skyline Tourer. I had the bike more or less from new. I never had a problem braking though never rode the bike loaded. I weigh over 200lbs. Then I took the bike on a coast to coast ride in the rain loaded with four panniers and heavy tent. The damn brakes nearly killed me on a not particularly steep downhill! Passed my turning and had to wait until the road leveled out before I could bring it to a halt. I've fitted long drop sidepulls to that bike and the braking is fine but lacks feel. But it does stop me. I have also since added Cane Creek Crosstop Brake Levers. These are extremely powerful.
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robc02
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Re: Cantilever brakes ..... HELP !!!

Postby robc02 » 20 Sep 2019, 2:45pm

For several years I had Tektro 720s on my LHT, operated by Tektro R200 levers and fitted with Koolstop Salmon and then BBB Techstop pads. I always found the braking power perfectly adequate but requiring a slightly stronger pull than on my other bikes.

As much out of curiosity as anything I replaced them with Avid Shorty 6 - similar in geometry to Oryx, again with Tektro R200 levers and with BBB Techstop and now Ultrastop pads. I used the shorter of the fixed straddle cables and adjusted the height with the length of the main cable and playing around with the position of the pad spacing washers. The braking power is much increased over 720s at the expense of reduced pad to rim clearance and softer feel. In fact, with the straddle wire in its lowest position the braking power is a bit too much for my liking - "grabbing a handful of brake" feels like it might result in a crash! - Plus the pad to rim clearance is tiny.

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bigjim
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Re: Cantilever brakes ..... HELP !!!

Postby bigjim » 20 Sep 2019, 3:05pm

I think Cantis are an unnecessary abomination [I await the flack]. A nuisance to keep setup and not that powerful. I realise that they are designed for wider tyres, but how wide? I have a Galaxy that I have converted from canti's to cheap un-named side-pulls with 32c tyres. Brakes very well and easy to maintain. On my old Raleigh Sprint with original side-pulls and those old style blocks, I had brakes far more powerful from the various Canti's I have used. Even the old so called suicide levers pulled the bike up very well. My original Raleigh Royal with Centrerpulls are better than my cantis.
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PH
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Re: Cantilever brakes ..... HELP !!!

Postby PH » 20 Sep 2019, 3:18pm

bigjim wrote: I've fitted long drop sidepulls to that bike and the braking is fine but lacks feel. But it does stop me. I have also since added Cane Creek Crosstop Brake Levers. These are extremely powerful.

It's a pity you didn't try them in the opposite order, you may have found that the cross top levers and the canti brakes would have been fine.

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horizon
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Re: Cantilever brakes ..... HELP !!!

Postby horizon » 20 Sep 2019, 3:22pm

bigjim wrote:I think Cantis are an unnecessary abomination [I await the flack]. A nuisance to keep set up and not that powerful.


I have several bikes, most fitted historically with cantis. As a choice I would prefer V brakes (discs are a different matter). The reason people like me say that cantis are quite good is because we're constantly told how good discs are and indeed how awful cantis are so we are just putting the record straight - I wouldn't go out and make claims for them. AIUI, cantis are challenged in the wet (especially with four panniers, downhill, a touring bike, a tent and a heavy rider) but I simply don't experience the problems that others talk about. That could be because my expectations are much lower or maybe because I blame my poor maintenance and see to it that the brakes are put right asap. The V brakes that I do have on one or two bikes are at risk of sending me over the bars so in a way, cantis really are OK. But I suppose I would take it easy downhill, fully loaded in the wet on a dark night ...
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Brucey
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Re: Cantilever brakes ..... HELP !!!

Postby Brucey » 20 Sep 2019, 5:25pm

folk say all kinds of strange things, for example that cantis are an abomination but in the same breath Vs are OK. Well Vs are a species of canti, just a with a different shape arm and a different cable pull.

FWIW I've seen bigger variations in the MA of cantis than other sorts of brake; the great benefit is that if you know what you are doing you can have any MA you like. However in the hands of folk that don't know the details, the result is often a brake that doesn't seem to work very well whilst seeming to be a PITA to set up.

cheers
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