Claris derailure for 6 speed renovation

[garygkn]

A friend has ripped the Simplex derailure in half it look like a case of over shifting?
Anyway it's gone into the back wheel broken 2 spokes. Added to this the 6 speed freewheel has internally failed it's just spinning and not driving.

He wants it back on the road.
It needs a replacement derailure the 8 speed Claris was one suggestion at £17 new. A new 6 speed freewheel I've seen some 14-28 Shimano ones for sale. New chain - will 8 speed work on 6?

The bike is a commuter it does 12 miles a day 5 days a week. It's an old Peugeot 12 speed Vitesse Reynolds 501. The wheels are 700c. The hubs look like Mallard.

I am assuming that the rear spacing is around 125?

Any feedback most welcome

Thanks.

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my Moto G (4) using hovercraft full of eels.

[hamster]

Should all work fine as you suggest.

[slowster]

Is that a Maillard Helicomatic hub? Sheldon Brown describes it here and provides details on identifying it from the lockring. If it is, then your friend will probably need to buy a new wheel.

[garygkn]

Thanks that's good to hear.
The levers are down tube friction so from my memory they should continue to work in the same way.

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my Moto G (4) using hovercraft full of eels.

[garygkn]

Is that a Maillard Helicomatic hub? Sheldon Brown describes it here and provides details on identifying it from the lockring. If it is, then your friend will probably need to buy a new wheel.

I missed this first time around.
Hopefully it's not Helicomatic.
Sheldon: 'The Helicomatic was a nice idea on paper, but poorly executed. These hubs are losers.'

I'll take a look next Saturday and check using Sheldon's method of identification.

Thanks.

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my Moto G (4) using hovercraft full of eels.

[Brucey]

FWIW I think that is probably a Helicomatic hub as well. The thing that suggests it to me is that you can just see the LH dustcap in one of the photos and it looks much smaller than on most other Maillard rear hubs; IME this dustcap size is pretty much confined to Helicomatic hubs, since they use a bearing that employs 3/16" balls rather than 1/4" ones. Helicomatic hub bearings tend to wear out prematurely; overall, the rear hub bearing is only a little stronger than a front hub bearing, yet sees far higher loads. However if they are kept properly adjusted and lubricated, the hubs ought to last for several chains.


typical helicomatic hub as fitted to a peugeot


It may well be possible to rebuild the freewheel so that it only freewheels in one direction as intended. A common fault is that the pawl springs break; they are not difficult to replace in most cases. However, rebuilding helicomatic freewheels is appreciably more irritating than rebuilding other freewheels; IIRC the shims are a non-standard size and cannot easily be replaced with an alternative; there just isn't much room in there and the correct shims are very thin-walled. The last one of these I did, I ran out of shims and I ended up grinding the lockring so that it was a bit thinner; it was the only way to get the bearing adjustment anywhere near correct.

cheers

[hamster]

Seeing as it also has broken spokes I would be tempted simply to buy a new wheel.

[garygkn]

I agree with you all.
A replacement wheel is the optimal solution here.

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my Moto G (4) using hovercraft full of eels.

[Brucey]

Seeing as it also has broken spokes I would be tempted simply to buy a new wheel.

broken spoke? New bike, obviously....?

cheers

[hamster]

Seeing as it also has broken spokes I would be tempted simply to buy a new wheel.

broken spoke? New bike, obviously....?

So it's a Helicomatic hub, with tired spokes.

It's more about how much more trouble do you want to enjoy?

[Brucey]

Seeing as it also has broken spokes I would be tempted simply to buy a new wheel.

broken spoke? New bike, obviously....?

So it's a Helicomatic hub, with tired spokes.

It's more about how much more trouble do you want to enjoy?

er, the spokes broke because the RD got stuffed into them, not because it was (or might be) a Helicomatic hub. For all we know (and it seems likely given the state of the chain and sprockets) the pawls in the freewheel might just be gummed up. For all the lack of perceived reliability, the actual reliability is that it has lasted over 35 years so far. It needs a new RD regardless; other than that it might need a drop of oil and a couple of spokes and it would -for that rider- go for another 35 years....?

cheers

[garygkn]

There's a special tool for that hub that would need to be hunted down. Then there is the added grief of rebuilding that freewheel. Then there's the thought that the hub is of a sub optimal design from the outset. Plus the replacement of the spokes. I wouldn't personally want that hub as it's to my mind more potential trouble. If it was my bike I'd make it a single/fixed speed.

I used to go to the local bike shop to buy parts when I popped in to buy a 1" threaded head set I was told that you couldn't buy them anymore and I would need to buy a new bike. He said they were impossible to get and the only way around the problem was a new bike. That was 10 years ago. The shop isn't there anymore.

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my Moto G (4) using hovercraft full of eels.

[Brucey]

There's a special tool for that hub that would need to be hunted down...

very easily found on ebay, but not actually necessary; you can use pipe grips; very far from ideal but plenty of LBSs do this. Remember that the lockring isn't ever meant to be particularly tight.

Then there is the added grief of rebuilding that freewheel...

it might just need some oil.

Then there's the thought that the hub is of a sub optimal design from the outset.

its so useless it has lasted 35 years so far....

If rebuilding (say) a SunTour freewheel scores 5 for difficulty a Helicomatic one scores about 7. Even so I have not failed yet.

Do bear in mind that even if the freewheel is toast a replacement can be had on ebay for about fifteen quid.

Would I choose to go on an extended tour on helicomatic stuff? - of course not. But for whatever this chap has been using it for, it has worked thus far.

cheers

[garygkn]

He's owned the bike for 10 years and it's been in reserve for when the main Raleigh commuter has been out of action. So it's only been used sparingly however it has been used consistently for 2 months and then the trouble with the freewheel started. I'll see what route he thinks is best to take. The Raleigh has now been renovated and looks too good to commute on.