Alfine hub questions

[PH]

OK, I ought to know this, I possibly do, but better safe than sorry.
Three questions:
Alfine 8 hub
1) What gear is a hub without a cable in, has it gone back to 1 or does it remain in the last gear it was in, if the latter how do you tell which that is?
2) there's two trigger shifters, that operate in opposite directions, are they interchangeable?
3) is there an optimum tension when using the Alfine tensioner?
Thanks

[amediasatex]

OK, I ought to know this, I possibly do, but better safe than sorry.
Three questions:
Alfine 8 hub
1) What gear is a hub without a cable in, has it gone back to 1 or does it remain in the last gear it was in, if the latter how do you tell which that is?
2) there's two trigger shifters, that operate in opposite directions, are they interchangeable?
3) is there an optimum tension when using the Alfine tensioner?
Thanks

1) Depends on the model, there are top-normal (newer/current SG-S7000/SG-S7001 models) and low-normal (old SG-500/SG-501 models) versions of the Alfine 8s. Regardless without cable it shifts the the end of the range as the selector is sprung, but that will be either 1 or 8 depending on the model. What model are you looking at?

2) Not really... one is designed for the top-normal models, one for low-normal. But you *can* use the wrong shifter, although the cable-pull steps are not the same between all gears (there's a long one in the middle) so its possible but needs careful setup otherwise a couple of shifts go a bit wonky so it's not a good idea really. Note that it's the hub that determines which way the shifts actually go, not the shifter, so using a new shifter on an old hub wont magically make it shift the conventional way. (This may have the annoying side-effect that the numbers on the shifter are backwards)

3) Yes, not too tight, not too loose but there's loads of leeway in the middle.

[PH]

Thanks for that.
1) It's not at home, but I think it's the SG-S7000 model. Knowing it'll be 1 or 8 is enough
2) Bugger, that means I've bought the wrong shifter. No big deal, though it scuppers the plans to add it to a frame this weekend.
3) I thought I'd read somewhere that the jockey wheels one directly below the other was best, but I couldn't find any reference to it and googling brings up images in just about every position.

[Brucey]

worth noting that many IGHs don't select the 'slack cable' gear as soon as the cable is disconnected; it often takes a few turns of the hub/pedals before the gear is fully in (even if the shift control in the hub appears to have moved).

Note also that the low normal Alfine 8 hubs will also work OK with Nexus 8 shifters (and vice versa). I think the 'wrong' shifter will work fine, if you can stand the numbers being wrong.

FWIW when the chain is worn, it needs to be able to 'climb' up the teeth a little in order for the chain to be able to run smoothly (not to mention wear at the lowest rate). Chain tension that is too high makes the chain less able to 'climb' easily and makes it more likely that the rollers will move around under load.

Thus my definition of chain tension that is too low is when the chain falls off too often. Anything much more than that is probably more tension than it needs, and will carry little or no benefit, more likely only detriment.

cheers

[PH]

Thanks Brucey. Numbers being the wrong way round wouldn't bother me, though for the sake of a minor delay, I might as well have it right.

Thus my definition of chain tension that is too low is when the chain falls off too often. Anything much more than that is probably more tension than it needs, and will carry little or no benefit, more likely only detriment.
cheers

Yes, my hub gears without tensioners run pretty slack, I was just wondering if a tensioner makes any difference. I'll suck it and see, leave the chain long and take links out if it doesn't feel right.
I've remembered where I saw the one wheel below the other advice, it's for the Paul Components tensioner, one of which I could have bought last winter for the same price I've paid for the Alfine one. I knew it would be useful and I should of bought it... though I do have a box of other parts bought on the same basis that are gathering dust.

[Brucey]

the advice about the tensioner position may just be pragmatic rather than tension related per se; set thusly you presumably have about half the travel available for bumps and derailment, and about half for chain wear.

cheers

[rofan]

...
Yes, my hub gears without tensioners run pretty slack, I was just wondering if a tensioner makes any difference. I'll suck it and see, leave the chain long and take links out if it doesn't feel right.
... though I do have a box of other parts bought on the same basis that are gathering dust.

For A8 and A11 I'm using old rear derailleurs, fixed in the right position (needs longer screws)