Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

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Mick F
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Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

Postby Mick F » 28 Oct 2019, 9:55am

I didn't mention derailleurs. :wink:

It's already been said, that the Rohloff is expensive, and our OP reckons it's inferior to the Alfine.
What do you get with a Rohloff that you don't get with other hub gears?
Mick F. Cornwall

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

Postby Cyril Haearn » 28 Oct 2019, 10:03am

A blacksmith in Kazakhstan might find a derailleur easier to fix than a hub gear :?
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Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

Postby Brucey » 28 Oct 2019, 10:05am

meandros wrote:
Brucey wrote:Nothing is perfect and nothing lasts for ever; when it comes to bike parts it is arguably a question of choosing your poison. I don't know how you can maintain the fiction of '100% reliablity in A11' when you have had hubshells break. It doesn't make sense.


That's not what I'm saying, Brucey. What I am saying is every Shimano IGH that came thru my shop has been fixed, no matter the state or defect it came with. Now, I've dealt with a couple Alfines that had seen the carrier 3 destroyed and those hubs were working like nothing happened once I replaced that part. Now, for this rohloffff I can't get a pos driver to save my life which makes the whole hub scrap.


Ah I see. FWIW I object to having to buy a new axle assy for shimano IGHs when a 50p part within it has spat the dummy.... and a new axle assy is a good fraction of the cost of a new hub.... so..... I wouldn't hold up shimano's spare parts supply as something to be emulated. In fact it is bonkers barmy; in many shimano IGHs the driver pawls fail but you can't buy them separate from the driver... duh. In the UK I am told that MADison (the official shimano importer) have just decided they are not going to supply Nexus 7s hubs any more....duh...

Re your Rohloff hub, do you mean the driver or the splined sprocket carrier that screws on to it? It is easy to be wise in hindsight but

- If the former you shouldn't have broken it (never seen or heard of anyone breaking one before)
- if the latter you can buy it easily, e.g.

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/sprockets/rohloff-splined-sprocket-carrier-slim-8540s/

cheers
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reohn2
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Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

Postby reohn2 » 28 Oct 2019, 10:24am

Cyril Haearn wrote:A blacksmith in Kazakhstan might find a derailleur easier to fix than a hub gear :?

Oh yeah,how many Kazak blacksmiths do you know then :wink:
The deraileur has it's innards on the outside where they are subject to weather,catching on shrubbery or getting damaged in a fall,not so a reliable IGH sucha a Rohloff.
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Sweep
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Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

Postby Sweep » 28 Oct 2019, 11:37am

reohn2 wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:The deraileur has it's innards on the outside where they are subject to weather,catching on shrubbery or getting damaged in a fall,not so a reliable IGH sucha a Rohloff.

It's very hard I think to damage a rear mech in a fall on a loaded panniered bike.

Me? Considered a rohloff in the past - now happy with mechs - like to see what's going on - I agree with mick on running costs - An XT mech of mine which came on a bike bought in 2004 is now on another bike build - just replaced the jockey wheels for about £11. That mech is a nice looking thing but tough - it did take a slight knock once but all is well.

Found it so tough I have bought a couple of second hand ones.

Not sure what all this talk is of extensive maintenance on a rear mech - squirt some GT85 on key bits now and again - keep jockey wheels cleanish by holding a rag against them as you turn the pedals/chain. Done. All that can be done on the road.
Sweep

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Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

Postby Brucey » 28 Oct 2019, 12:06pm

most people use derailleurs and they are almost infinitely bodgeable. But wear, maladjustment, a small knock, a twig or a small plastic bag can easily cause the rear mech to dive enthusiastically into the steel embrace of the spokes in the rear wheel. You can go a long way without this happening but there is almost nothing you can do -except not have one at all- which will reduce the chances of it happening to zero.

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Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

Postby PH » 28 Oct 2019, 12:47pm

Mick F wrote:What do you get with a Rohloff that you don't get with other hub gears?

14 gears for a start :wink:
The OP says they're inferior, yet the vast majority of owners disagree, make your own mind up...
Good stuff is usually expensive, how much is a new Mercian?

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Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

Postby PH » 28 Oct 2019, 1:02pm

Sweep wrote:I agree with mick on running costs - An XT mech of mine which came on a bike bought in 2004 is now on another bike build - just replaced the jockey wheels for about £11. That mech is a nice looking thing but tough - it did take a slight knock once but all is well.

What mileage do you get out of chain, cassette and chainring? Even if the chainline and tooth profiles didn't double the life, sprockets and chainrings are reversible and it isn't fussy about the quality of the chain.
The only fair comparison would be with the same user and usage, Mick F will get good mileage from his components, have you seen his cleaning routine? And as mentioned upthread this is on the assumption that there's no value to the time involved.
For myself, with a less regimented cleaning regime (Wipe and oil chain when I remember) at a conservative estimate the components last twice the time, then get reversed and are half the price, work out what saving that would be for your use over 100,000 miles, I reckon for me that's at least the price of a hub.

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Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

Postby PH » 28 Oct 2019, 1:09pm

meandros wrote:a hope to freedom against corporate mass control and mass surveillance.

and you prefer the Shimano model?
Rohloff have my serial numbers. Good, It's something that ought to be better publicised, it increases the value of a legitimate hub for sale and hopefully reduces the value of a stolen one.

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Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

Postby Brucey » 28 Oct 2019, 1:49pm

as per my previous post on this point; driver or sprocket carrier?

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meandros
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Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

Postby meandros » 28 Oct 2019, 1:57pm

Brucey wrote:as per my previous post on this point; driver or sprocket carrier?

cheers


I apologize, dear Brucey, I got too caught up in my own bull. It is the driver, ofcourse, I did a real nice job on it, cannot be salvaged, unfortunately for me.

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Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

Postby Brucey » 28 Oct 2019, 2:27pm

meandros wrote:
Brucey wrote:as per my previous post on this point; driver or sprocket carrier?

cheers


I apologize, dear Brucey, I got too caught up in my own bull. It is the driver, ofcourse, I did a real nice job on it, cannot be salvaged, unfortunately for me.


ah, that is unfortunate. Can't be built up with weld and remachined?

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meandros
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Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

Postby meandros » 28 Oct 2019, 6:37pm

Brucey wrote:Can't be built up with weld and remachined?
cheers


That seems to be the last hope for this particular driver. Will have to try that out, the only catch is the sprocket being steel and the weld being aluminium.

Thank you for taking the time, Brucey.

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Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

Postby Brucey » 28 Oct 2019, 8:50pm

meandros wrote:
Brucey wrote:Can't be built up with weld and remachined?
cheers


That seems to be the last hope for this particular driver. Will have to try that out, the only catch is the sprocket being steel and the weld being aluminium.


I'm suggesting that you restore the driver to the normal condition by building it up with aluminium weld metal, then machine it back to the original form. Then you can screw whatever you like to it.
(edited for typo)

cheers
Last edited by Brucey on 28 Oct 2019, 9:05pm, edited 1 time in total.
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meandros
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Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

Postby meandros » 28 Oct 2019, 9:02pm

Brucey wrote:I'm suggesting that you restore the driver to the normal condition by building it up with aluminium weld metal, then machine it back to the original form. They you can screw whatever you like to it.

cheers


Thank you kindly, Brucey. I will give that one a try as well.

Best regards,