CX-3 wrote:There must be something inherently wrong in any system that needs all these customer designed tweaks to make things work properly.
What sensible R&D system would send out a product that so many customers find impossible to use simply and effectively?
For the most part we are just discussing different techniques and tips for a product which is relatively extremely cheap and very effective. As you yourself have noted, if you don't follow the instructions to the letter it usually doesn't matter anyway, but like many tasks a lot of us have developed our own particular ways of doing things that we find better for us, and which we are sharing and comparing on this thread.
In contrast I have read far more complaints online from people who cannot get their tubeless tyres to set up properly/easily: I would be far more unimpressed by the R&D system which puts products on the market which combined often cost upwards of £100, yet which many customers have problems setting up and/or maintaining, and which can even damage rims (in the case of contact with sealants which are alkaline).
CX-3 wrote:There must be something inherently wrong in any system that needs all these customer designed tweaks to make things work properly.
What sensible R&D system would send out a product that so many customers find impossible to use simply and effectively?
The "product" is probably as old as pneumatic tyres; it isn't something that has been developed by a modern R&D system. But things change; its a lot easier to patch a tube made of natural rubber than a modern tube made of butyl....this alone probably accounts for lots of the user difficulties (trying to apply to butyl methods which worked on natural rubber). The rubber solution has changed; its not acceptable now to expose workers to poisonous volatiles like trichlorethylene, so alternatives have to be found. What is the budget for your proposed R&D?
reohn2 wrote:TipTop patches cellophane are perforated for that purpose
I switched to doing it the way I've described because I repeatedly found that the film would not come away cleanly from the patch if I relied on the perforations to snap the film in two. Instead of each half then peeling away intact, invariably it would break and bits would remain stuck to the patch, which were even more fiddly to remove. In my experience cutting the film into four segments improves the odds of being able to peel each piece off intact.
reohn2 wrote:I can't understand why I'd need to go anyway near a freshly glued patch with a knife.
I should have added that I usually make the cut before applying the patch and before even removing the foil backing on the other side. With reasonably steady hands it's very easy to do without cutting into the patch itself*. I then often use the tip of the blade to lift the corner of each segment a bit, so that there is enough of it to get a grip of when peeling it off after applying the patch.
Obviously doing the above at your leisure at home on a flat work surface like a kitchen table with good lighting is going to be much easier than attempting to do the same while out riding.
* I should also add that I only make the cuts in the central black portion of a Tip Top patch, not the thinner orange feathered edges.
If it works for you that's fine by me,personally whilst I've had the cellophane tear in the way you suggest I've never found it much trouble to lift the edge with a fingernail and peel off especially as almost(never say never )always repair punctured tubes in the comfort of the workshop
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
CX-3 wrote:There must be something inherently wrong in any system that needs all these customer designed tweaks to make things work properly.
What sensible R&D system would send out a product that so many customers find impossible to use simply and effectively?
I posted up thread that with a tube in my hands(excluding removing from the wheel/tyre)it takes me approx 5minues to patch a it,so the system seems perfectly satisfactory IMO.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
CX-3 wrote:There must be something inherently wrong in any system that needs all these customer designed tweaks to make things work properly.
What sensible R&D system would send out a product that so many customers find impossible to use simply and effectively?
For the most part we are just discussing different techniques and tips for a product which is relatively extremely cheap and very effective. As you yourself have noted, if you don't follow the instructions to the letter it usually doesn't matter anyway, but like many tasks a lot of us have developed our own particular ways of doing things that we find better for us, and which we are sharing and comparing on this thread.
In contrast I have read far more complaints online from people who cannot get their tubeless tyres to set up properly/easily: I would be far more unimpressed by the R&D system which puts products on the market which combined often cost upwards of £100, yet which many customers have problems setting up and/or maintaining, and which can even damage rims (in the case of contact with sealants which are alkaline).
Quite!
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
It seems to me that the cellophane backing of Tip Top patches has changed over the years. I first bought some in 1955 and the backing split just by folding the patch, making it easy to remove. I can't do that with the present material.
CX-3 wrote:There must be something inherently wrong in any system that needs all these customer designed tweaks to make things work properly.
What sensible R&D system would send out a product that so many customers find impossible to use simply and effectively?
The "product" is probably as old as pneumatic tyres; it isn't something that has been developed by a modern R&D system. But things change; its a lot easier to patch a tube made of natural rubber than a modern tube made of butyl....this alone probably accounts for lots of the user difficulties (trying to apply to butyl methods which worked on natural rubber). The rubber solution has changed; its not acceptable now to expose workers to poisonous volatiles like trichlorethylene, so alternatives have to be found. What is the budget for your proposed R&D?
Whoa boy. Wind your neck in. I was merely making a comment. If you want an argument I'm happy to oblige; just a word of warning....you won't like what I will say. Kapische?
Cyril Haearn wrote:I use marathon plus tyres, not had a p****e for years, glad to pay more for robust sluggish tyres They last well too
Last puncture I had was June 2018, riding Vitoria Voyager Hypers off road that turned out to have a section with lots of thorns (I was confirming my suspicion that a section marked as an NCN route locally wasn't really suitable. Although there does seem to be work on hand to sort it). I don't think I've had a puncture on road in nearly 3 years (around 5000 miles) riding them. Personally, I think that is a reasonable tradeoff.
On ridges on tubes, I've found that the emery in Tip Top repair kits makes short work of them - maybe 10 seconds of rubbing. Not that they need repairing frequently.
Former member of the Cult of the Polystyrene Head Carbuncle.
However much it was, it resulted in a smoother, lighter, tougher, faster rolling tube in a fetching shade of pink, all for £25 https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Tuboli ... nTEALw_wcB
Great if you have a spare 50 quid and disc brakes. With 2 or 3 punctures per year I think I'll save my money for chains etc.
However much it was, it resulted in a smoother, lighter, tougher, faster rolling tube in a fetching shade of pink, all for £25 https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Tuboli ... nTEALw_wcB
Great if you have a spare 50 quid and disc brakes. With 2 or 3 punctures per year I think I'll save my money for chains etc.
I can see youre chained to old technology and not prepepared for inflation
I'll quickly un link myself from the above comment as I'm feeling deflated about the whole thing.....
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
However much it was, it resulted in a smoother, lighter, tougher, faster rolling tube in a fetching shade of pink, all for £25 https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Tuboli ... nTEALw_wcB
Great if you have a spare 50 quid and disc brakes. With 2 or 3 punctures per year I think I'll save my money for chains etc.
Don't forget the spare! That makes £75 & god knows how much the "P repair" kit costs.
I also notice that it doesn't say what wheel sizes are available & what if you have drum brakes?
)always repair punctured tubes in the comfort of the workshop 
