Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

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dim
Posts: 327
Joined: 12 May 2019, 5:59pm

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby dim » 11 Dec 2019, 2:09pm

very nice! .... I like it!

but as some others have said, change the bottle cages .... and get bottles that will match

The bell also looks a bit odd (have a look at the Crane Bells (the brass Suzu ... an amazing bell and probably the best in the world) ...

just out of interest, what brake levers are you using? (I'm looking at changing mine on my Miyata 1000 which also has Canti brakes)

pwa
Posts: 11152
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby pwa » 11 Dec 2019, 2:24pm

dim wrote:very nice! .... I like it!

but as some others have said, change the bottle cages .... and get bottles that will match

The bell also looks a bit odd (have a look at the Crane Bells (the brass Suzu ... an amazing bell and probably the best in the world) ...

just out of interest, what brake levers are you using? (I'm looking at changing mine on my Miyata 1000 which also has Canti brakes)


I think I'll live with the bottle cages because doing so fits with the self-image I like to foster: as someone who doesn't bother about things like that. The bell is a favourite thing, actually. A brass dome job that is gradually going green. Made by the Lion Bell Works. The sound is lovely. It does look a bit bulky but again, I like it.

The brake levers must be 18 years old, Shimano something or other. I faintly recollect there being a 400 in the name but I could be wrong.

A quick look at SJS makes me think they are these:

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brake-lever ... ke-levers/

pwa
Posts: 11152
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby pwa » 11 Dec 2019, 2:45pm

Because I know some of you like this sort of information: total weight of the bike (57cm) as seen in the image, with guards, pedals and Tubus Cargo rack, 12.7kg.

slowster
Posts: 1138
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby slowster » 11 Dec 2019, 2:53pm

I like that. Have you been out on it yet, and so how do you find it handles and feels compared with your Thorn?

Also, what's the gearing and what was the query you had for Spa regarding the front derailleur?

pwa
Posts: 11152
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby pwa » 11 Dec 2019, 3:32pm

slowster wrote:I like that. Have you been out on it yet, and so how do you find it handles and feels compared with your Thorn?

Also, what's the gearing and what was the query you had for Spa regarding the front derailleur?


Mainly due to the weather I haven't had it out for a proper ride yet but it has had a couple of short spins, the latest being a few minutes ago. And the handling must be very similar to that of the Thorn Club Tour because I didn't notice anything. I went round familiar corners without thinking about steering. Nice and stable at 25mph, well behaved at 3mph when I paused to talk to a friend out with his dog.

The gears are 46/36/26 at the front and 9 speed at the back. Not sure what the smallest sprocket is but the largest will be 32.

The old front mech was looking very tired so I asked Spa what they had that would work best with my set-up. They recommended a Sora triple that was for braze-on, but supplied a separate band-on adaptor that is like a braze-on fitting with a slot to slide the mech up or down to suit. In practice it has more adjustment potential than either a proper braze-on set-up or a band-on mech. And it works.

(The seatpost is still being a good boy and not slipping.)

Jamesh
Posts: 805
Joined: 2 Jan 2017, 5:56pm

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby Jamesh » 11 Dec 2019, 3:49pm

pwa wrote:
dim wrote:very nice! .... I like it!

but as some others have said, change the bottle cages .... and get bottles that will match

The bell also looks a bit odd (have a look at the Crane Bells (the brass Suzu ... an amazing bell and probably the best in the world) ...

just out of interest, what brake levers are you using? (I'm looking at changing mine on my Miyata 1000 which also has Canti brakes)


I think I'll live with the bottle cages because doing so fits with the self-image I like to foster: as someone who doesn't bother about things like that. The bell is a favourite thing, actually. A brass dome job that is gradually going green. Made by the Lion Bell Works. The sound is lovely. It does look a bit bulky but again, I like it.

The brake levers must be 18 years old, Shimano something or other. I faintly recollect there being a 400 in the name but I could be wrong.

A quick look at SJS makes me think they are these:

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brake-lever ... ke-levers/


I bet he rides with a hi Viz jacket with a couple of oil marks on it, rather than black rapha kit and touring shoes without overshoes...! Shocking.
I walked into Cavendish pavillion, Bolton abbey last saturday morning and very much felt out of place! As did my bike!!!

Cheers James

pwa
Posts: 11152
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby pwa » 11 Dec 2019, 3:54pm

Jamesh wrote:
pwa wrote:
dim wrote:very nice! .... I like it!

but as some others have said, change the bottle cages .... and get bottles that will match

The bell also looks a bit odd (have a look at the Crane Bells (the brass Suzu ... an amazing bell and probably the best in the world) ...

just out of interest, what brake levers are you using? (I'm looking at changing mine on my Miyata 1000 which also has Canti brakes)


I think I'll live with the bottle cages because doing so fits with the self-image I like to foster: as someone who doesn't bother about things like that. The bell is a favourite thing, actually. A brass dome job that is gradually going green. Made by the Lion Bell Works. The sound is lovely. It does look a bit bulky but again, I like it.

The brake levers must be 18 years old, Shimano something or other. I faintly recollect there being a 400 in the name but I could be wrong.

A quick look at SJS makes me think they are these:

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brake-lever ... ke-levers/


I bet he rides with a hi Viz jacket with a couple of oil marks on it, rather than black rapha kit and touring shoes without overshoes...! Shocking.
I walked into Cavendish pavillion, Bolton abbey last saturday morning and very much felt out of place! As did my bike!!!

Cheers James


Too accurate. Have you been stalking me? :lol:

fastpedaller
Posts: 2277
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby fastpedaller » 11 Dec 2019, 4:10pm

pwa wrote:The forks are chromo steel and, therefore, painted. The paint looks like it will last. And unlike with other forks I've had, the steerer is painted. And when I cut it to size the paint at the cut edge behaved very nicely. It didn't flake. It cut cleanly, showing I think that it is well stuck to the metal. That would bode well for anyone buying a steel frame painted that way.


Maybe the factory Spa use have changed things slightly? my steel tourer (2014) steerer tube wasn't painted, so I soon remedied that :D apart from unseen rust, there was a part of the steerer visible between the 2 clamp bolt areas of the stem 9if that makes sense) - no benefit from allowing rust to form!

pwa
Posts: 11152
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby pwa » 11 Dec 2019, 4:35pm

fastpedaller wrote:
pwa wrote:The forks are chromo steel and, therefore, painted. The paint looks like it will last. And unlike with other forks I've had, the steerer is painted. And when I cut it to size the paint at the cut edge behaved very nicely. It didn't flake. It cut cleanly, showing I think that it is well stuck to the metal. That would bode well for anyone buying a steel frame painted that way.


Maybe the factory Spa use have changed things slightly? my steel tourer (2014) steerer tube wasn't painted, so I soon remedied that :D apart from unseen rust, there was a part of the steerer visible between the 2 clamp bolt areas of the stem 9if that makes sense) - no benefit from allowing rust to form!

I gave the steerer a film of grease anyway, and coated the cut edge with anti-seize grease. The headset supplied was not the Tange roller bearing one they used to send out with framesets. It is a more conventional FSA one with cartridge bearings. That got a load of grease as well.

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531colin
Posts: 12563
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Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby 531colin » 11 Dec 2019, 5:40pm

Re.front low-riders and all those fork braze-ons...…
If you look up Tubus fitting instructions on their website (available in English) you will see that their low-riders expect to fit to the mudguard eye on the dropout.
The extra eyes a couple of inches up the fork leg are for the mudguard, when the dropout eyes are used by the low-riders.
The middle eyes are for the low-rider top fixing....there doesn't seem to be a "standard" distance between the top fixing and the dropout fixing, but I don't think you could fit a Tubus front rack other than using the dropout eyes.
The top braze-ons are for front lamp(s) eg like this bracket..https://spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s169p1102/PASSPORT-Front-Fork-Lamp-Bracket
…Its my recollection that our original forks were built by Lee Cooper, and he had been used to building Thorn forks like that, but its some years ago.

Re. gear cable guides on the head tube....I have seen too many bikes where the gear cable outer has been damaged by those ring guides....once the plastic cover is breached, the wires spill out all over the place, and its suddenly "no indexing". I also don't like the adjusters in a braze-on on the head tube, for the same reason....too much cable damage. The cables fare much better with the adjusters mounted on downtube lever mounts, without additional guides. Sorry, just my experiences of other peoples (badly maintained?) bikes.

pwa
Posts: 11152
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby pwa » 11 Dec 2019, 7:00pm

531colin wrote:Re.front low-riders and all those fork braze-ons...…
If you look up Tubus fitting instructions on their website (available in English) you will see that their low-riders expect to fit to the mudguard eye on the dropout.
The extra eyes a couple of inches up the fork leg are for the mudguard, when the dropout eyes are used by the low-riders.
The middle eyes are for the low-rider top fixing....there doesn't seem to be a "standard" distance between the top fixing and the dropout fixing, but I don't think you could fit a Tubus front rack other than using the dropout eyes.
The top braze-ons are for front lamp(s) eg like this bracket..https://spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s169p1102/PASSPORT-Front-Fork-Lamp-Bracket
…Its my recollection that our original forks were built by Lee Cooper, and he had been used to building Thorn forks like that, but its some years ago.

Re. gear cable guides on the head tube....I have seen too many bikes where the gear cable outer has been damaged by those ring guides....once the plastic cover is breached, the wires spill out all over the place, and its suddenly "no indexing". I also don't like the adjusters in a braze-on on the head tube, for the same reason....too much cable damage. The cables fare much better with the adjusters mounted on downtube lever mounts, without additional guides. Sorry, just my experiences of other peoples (badly maintained?) bikes.


Regarding the fitting of a Tubus lowrider, yes you are right, of course. So I could fit the guards higher up if I wanted. I may do that but I'll leave it for now.

I have never had cable guides on the head tube so I did not consider wear to the cable outers. It was only a very minor quibble anyway. The frame is very good and I am happy with it. I found it very easy to get my preferred position on it so that when I sat on it and reached for the brake hoods everything felt like it was in the right place. And the current finish is classy.

dim
Posts: 327
Joined: 12 May 2019, 5:59pm

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby dim » 11 Dec 2019, 7:34pm

pwa wrote:
dim wrote:very nice! .... I like it!


A quick look at SJS makes me think they are these:

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brake-lever ... ke-levers/


thanks ... doubt that it the 400, as the 400 is not made for cantilever brakes ... the 400 is for caliper brakes

if you do have the 400, your brakes most probably don't work as well as they could

pwa
Posts: 11152
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby pwa » 11 Dec 2019, 7:39pm

dim wrote:
pwa wrote:
dim wrote:very nice! .... I like it!


A quick look at SJS makes me think they are these:

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brake-lever ... ke-levers/


thanks ... doubt that it the 400, as the 400 is not made for cantilever brakes ... the 400 is for caliper brakes

if you do have the 400, your brakes most probably don't work as well as they could

SJS (or Thorn) were fitting them as standard with cantis back then and they work okay. They were made 18 years ago for caliper brakes of that time, which are not the same as those of today. If you look at some of the questions at the bottom of that page you will see SJS recommending them for cantis.

PH
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Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby PH » 11 Dec 2019, 7:46pm

dim wrote:thanks ... doubt that it the 400, as the 400 is not made for cantilever brakes ... the 400 is for caliper brakes

if you do have the 400, your brakes most probably don't work as well as they could

Canti and calipers are the same cable pull, or were until recently, hence the need for cantis on STI tourers, it's V's that are different.

dim
Posts: 327
Joined: 12 May 2019, 5:59pm

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby dim » 11 Dec 2019, 7:49pm

pwa wrote:
dim wrote:
pwa wrote:


thanks ... doubt that it the 400, as the 400 is not made for cantilever brakes ... the 400 is for caliper brakes

if you do have the 400, your brakes most probably don't work as well as they could

SJS (or Thorn) were fitting them as standard with cantis back then and they work okay. They were made 18 years ago for caliper brakes of that time, which are not the same as those of today. If you look at some of the questions at the bottom of that page you will see SJS recommending them for cantis.


thanks .... I will have a close look ... I have the Shimano 600 that have the cables coming out the top ... the hoods are too small for my hands and I find them uncomfortable on long rides (I ride 90% of the time on the hoods)

I have Dura Ace Di2 on my other bike and they are very comfortable ... I'm looking for something similar for canti brakes