Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

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PH
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Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby PH » 11 Dec 2019, 7:58pm

fastpedaller wrote:
pwa wrote: And unlike with other forks I've had, the steerer is painted. And when I cut it to size the paint at the cut edge behaved very nicely. It didn't flake. It cut cleanly, showing I think that it is well stuck to the metal. That would bode well for anyone buying a steel frame painted that way.


Maybe the factory Spa use have changed things slightly? my steel tourer (2014) steerer tube wasn't painted,

It's possible, I'm only guessing, that the steerer isn't painted but covered as part of the ED coating. That's the case with the current Thorn forks, the steerer is black whatever colour the paint. I'd also assumed Spa's forks would be powder coated like their framsets, and that's pretty thick, I'd have thought thick enough to cause problems fitting the race if on the steerer, which is the usual argument for not painting them. .

pwa
Posts: 11152
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby pwa » 11 Dec 2019, 8:05pm

dim wrote:
pwa wrote:
dim wrote:
thanks ... doubt that it the 400, as the 400 is not made for cantilever brakes ... the 400 is for caliper brakes

if you do have the 400, your brakes most probably don't work as well as they could

SJS (or Thorn) were fitting them as standard with cantis back then and they work okay. They were made 18 years ago for caliper brakes of that time, which are not the same as those of today. If you look at some of the questions at the bottom of that page you will see SJS recommending them for cantis.


thanks .... I will have a close look ... I have the Shimano 600 that have the cables coming out the top ... the hoods are too small for my hands and I find them uncomfortable on long rides (I ride 90% of the time on the hoods)

I have Dura Ace Di2 on my other bike and they are very comfortable ... I'm looking for something similar for canti brakes

The BL-R400s are a bit *old school" and are a very good example of "aero" levers, the sort that had the cables hidden under the bar tape rather than coming out of the top of the lever. It looked sleeker back then but any real mechanical advantage was doubtful. And, crucially for you, the area to rest your hands on was still not big by today's standards. I like that but it sounds like it won't suit you. The hand area on the hoods is smaller than with STI levers. It sounds like you need something wider.

pwa
Posts: 11152
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby pwa » 11 Dec 2019, 8:08pm

PH wrote:
fastpedaller wrote:
pwa wrote: And unlike with other forks I've had, the steerer is painted. And when I cut it to size the paint at the cut edge behaved very nicely. It didn't flake. It cut cleanly, showing I think that it is well stuck to the metal. That would bode well for anyone buying a steel frame painted that way.


Maybe the factory Spa use have changed things slightly? my steel tourer (2014) steerer tube wasn't painted,

It's possible, I'm only guessing, that the steerer isn't painted but covered as part of the ED coating. That's the case with the current Thorn forks, the steerer is black whatever colour the paint. I'd also assumed Spa's forks would be powder coated like their framsets, and that's pretty thick, I'd have thought thick enough to cause problems fitting the race if on the steerer, which is the usual argument for not painting them. .


The black on the steerer certainly looked thinner than the paint on the exposed areas of the fork. But it was not the bare steel I expected to see.

dim
Posts: 327
Joined: 12 May 2019, 5:59pm

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby dim » 11 Dec 2019, 8:33pm

pwa wrote:
dim wrote:
pwa wrote:SJS (or Thorn) were fitting them as standard with cantis back then and they work okay. They were made 18 years ago for caliper brakes of that time, which are not the same as those of today. If you look at some of the questions at the bottom of that page you will see SJS recommending them for cantis.


thanks .... I will have a close look ... I have the Shimano 600 that have the cables coming out the top ... the hoods are too small for my hands and I find them uncomfortable on long rides (I ride 90% of the time on the hoods)

I have Dura Ace Di2 on my other bike and they are very comfortable ... I'm looking for something similar for canti brakes

The BL-R400s are a bit *old school" and are a very good example of "aero" levers, the sort that had the cables hidden under the bar tape rather than coming out of the top of the lever. It looked sleeker back then but any real mechanical advantage was doubtful. And, crucially for you, the area to rest your hands on was still not big by today's standards. I like that but it sounds like it won't suit you. The hand area on the hoods is smaller than with STI levers. It sounds like you need something wider.


thanks .... I've been looking at the Origin8 Classique Sport Drop Road Brake Levers ....

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brake-levers/origin8-classique-sport-drop-road-brake-levers-silver-black/

Image

sorry to hijack this thread :oops:

pwa
Posts: 11152
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby pwa » 11 Dec 2019, 8:38pm

dim wrote:
pwa wrote:
dim wrote:
thanks .... I will have a close look ... I have the Shimano 600 that have the cables coming out the top ... the hoods are too small for my hands and I find them uncomfortable on long rides (I ride 90% of the time on the hoods)

I have Dura Ace Di2 on my other bike and they are very comfortable ... I'm looking for something similar for canti brakes

The BL-R400s are a bit *old school" and are a very good example of "aero" levers, the sort that had the cables hidden under the bar tape rather than coming out of the top of the lever. It looked sleeker back then but any real mechanical advantage was doubtful. And, crucially for you, the area to rest your hands on was still not big by today's standards. I like that but it sounds like it won't suit you. The hand area on the hoods is smaller than with STI levers. It sounds like you need something wider.


thanks .... I've been looking at the Origin8 Classique Sport Drop Road Brake Levers ....

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brake-levers/origin8-classique-sport-drop-road-brake-levers-silver-black/

sorry to hijack this thread :oops:

Thread drift is what we live for. They look nice. But if you are after a certain feel in the hand it might be best to see if you can find some real life examples to handle.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 7147
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby Bonefishblues » 11 Dec 2019, 8:44pm

cyclop wrote:Nice machine.Is that a bulge in the front guard or an optical illusion,maybe some black on the box?

No, it's just pleased to see you.

dim
Posts: 327
Joined: 12 May 2019, 5:59pm

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby dim » 11 Dec 2019, 8:54pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
cyclop wrote:Nice machine.Is that a bulge in the front guard or an optical illusion,maybe some black on the box?

No, it's just pleased to see you.


you have a stunning bike ... but IMHO dont make it crap by skimping on the finishing touches ... decent bottle cages will cost you the price of 2 pints of beer .... sort the mudguards .... it's dented ... {FFE - family-friendly edit } change it

many have given their opinion as regards the bottle cages etc ....

it's good to be 'macho' with I don't care attitude, but it's the same as going to a wedding with a suit and with scuffed old shoes with holes in them .... you will look like a tosser .... not saying you need to wear Rapha and Sidi shoes, but like I said, nice expensive bike .... keep it nice 8)

and it's not like you are macho and don't care ... you posted this thread trying to brag about your bike .... so listen to what the people are saying :)

slowster
Posts: 1138
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby slowster » 11 Dec 2019, 9:54pm

pwa wrote:The BL-R400s are a bit *old school"..., the area to rest your hands on was still not big by today's standards. I like that but it sounds like it won't suit you. The hand area on the hoods is smaller than with STI levers.

I think most Shimano road brake levers in the 1980s, both aero and non-aero, were quite narrow compared with other brands. However, it was never a dealbreaker for me because I always wore track mitts, and the track mitts sold in the 1980s had thicker, bulkier leather palms compared with most modern track mitts with fabric palms. The bulk of the mitt's palm was effectively offset by the narrow lever body.

The pendulum has since swung completely the other way, and now many people with smallish hands do not find the large bulk of STI levers in particular to be comfortable.

fastpedaller
Posts: 2277
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby fastpedaller » 11 Dec 2019, 10:44pm

PH wrote: I'd also assumed Spa's forks would be powder coated like their framsets, and that's pretty thick, I'd have thought thick enough to cause problems fitting the race if on the steerer, which is the usual argument for not painting them. .


Are Spa's frames powder coated? My frame (2014) Is (I think) painted - but I could be incorrect?

mnichols
Posts: 1463
Joined: 22 Apr 2013, 4:29pm

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby mnichols » 11 Dec 2019, 10:52pm

I like the bike and I like the bottle cages. They add a bit of character. The bike looks like it's evolved over time and has been well thought out to suit your needs based on years of experience.

I don't like off the shelf bikes where someone has just got out their credit card and bought all the shiny things.

There's a hill outside my house that a Sportive goes over and every year I see people pushing £5000 bikes up it wearing a £1000 worth of rapha clothing

Brucey
Posts: 36646
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby Brucey » 11 Dec 2019, 11:17pm

pwa wrote:…. It's the rear mech cable outer which is about an inch too long. I re-used the cable outer from the donor frame and just put it on as it was, in a bit of a rush. I knew I would be re-visiting that later on.


I looked at the photo and for me, it was a toss-up between that and that the rack appears not to be quite level.

Nice bike!

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PH
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Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
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Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby PH » 11 Dec 2019, 11:36pm

fastpedaller wrote:
PH wrote: I'd also assumed Spa's forks would be powder coated like their framsets, and that's pretty thick, I'd have thought thick enough to cause problems fitting the race if on the steerer, which is the usual argument for not painting them. .


Are Spa's frames powder coated? My frame (2014) Is (I think) painted - but I could be incorrect?

It's an assumption on my part, based on the way they look and that the decals are on top. I could be wrong and there's no slight intended, for a bike that's likely to pick up a few knocks powder coat could be seen as a better choice than enamel.

pwa
Posts: 11152
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby pwa » 12 Dec 2019, 8:20am

Brucey wrote:
pwa wrote:…. It's the rear mech cable outer which is about an inch too long. I re-used the cable outer from the donor frame and just put it on as it was, in a bit of a rush. I knew I would be re-visiting that later on.


I looked at the photo and for me, it was a toss-up between that and that the rack appears not to be quite level.

Nice bike!

cheers

Thanks Brucey. The rack does look askew in the photo but I think that's just me not holding the camera level. Look at the pics on the wall!

pwa
Posts: 11152
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby pwa » 12 Dec 2019, 8:31am

PH wrote:
fastpedaller wrote:
PH wrote: I'd also assumed Spa's forks would be powder coated like their framsets, and that's pretty thick, I'd have thought thick enough to cause problems fitting the race if on the steerer, which is the usual argument for not painting them. .


Are Spa's frames powder coated? My frame (2014) Is (I think) painted - but I could be incorrect?

It's an assumption on my part, based on the way they look and that the decals are on top. I could be wrong and there's no slight intended, for a bike that's likely to pick up a few knocks powder coat could be seen as a better choice than enamel.

If you look at Spa's current description of their steel Tourer (which will have the same steel fork) all that is said about the paint is that the steel is ED coated, by which I assumed they mean that is the complete paint job, just ED coated (in a bath) and job done. It is a new process to me and having had mixed experiences with Thorn's powder coated frames I am happy to give this alternative a go. Strangely, the one part of a frameset where I never seem to have rust / damaged paint issues is forks. You might think that area is exposed to hazards and could take a battering but my forks have always fared really well.

(I think Thorn may have moved away from powder coating)
Last edited by pwa on 12 Dec 2019, 8:40am, edited 1 time in total.

reohn2
Posts: 37370
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Frameset transplant: Spa Titanium Touring

Postby reohn2 » 12 Dec 2019, 8:36am

dim wrote:
pwa wrote:
dim wrote:
thanks .... I will have a close look ... I have the Shimano 600 that have the cables coming out the top ... the hoods are too small for my hands and I find them uncomfortable on long rides (I ride 90% of the time on the hoods)

I have Dura Ace Di2 on my other bike and they are very comfortable ... I'm looking for something similar for canti brakes

The BL-R400s are a bit *old school" and are a very good example of "aero" levers, the sort that had the cables hidden under the bar tape rather than coming out of the top of the lever. It looked sleeker back then but any real mechanical advantage was doubtful. And, crucially for you, the area to rest your hands on was still not big by today's standards. I like that but it sounds like it won't suit you. The hand area on the hoods is smaller than with STI levers. It sounds like you need something wider.


thanks .... I've been looking at the Origin8 Classique Sport Drop Road Brake Levers ....

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brake-levers/origin8-classique-sport-drop-road-brake-levers-silver-black/

Image

sorry to hijack this thread :oops:

I find these Tektro levers very comfortable:- https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brake-lever ... rs-silver/
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